Is c++ gonna die

cpp boy · 2004-04-01T00:55:46

Hi people. I was reading a lot of posts on c# better than c++ or c++ better than c#. But thats not my interest. So the people that like to argue about that here is not the place. I do not in any purpose whant to start a flame war. So now here the question. Is c++ going to stop being used like it is know. By this I mean will c# get the majority of the programming books. Like instead of making a book like "Role Playing games whit Directx 8.0" Using the c++ language will they eventualy almost all use c#. By that I mean will c# be one of the most important language on the market like c++ is know. And my secound question is how is c# different from c++. Cause if c# will be the c++ of tommorow might as well know it. Kevin

PlayGGY

122

January 11, 2004 08:55 PM

quote:Original post by cowsarenotevil
quote:Original post by Imperil
quote:Original post by cowsarenotevil
quote:Original post by Imperil
But when you can develop applications in 1/2 to 1/3 of the time in C# compared to C++, that is what professional developers will use.. because it is a business after all.

Please explain. Unless C# comes with a magical physics and rendering library, this 1/2 to 1/3 stuff is nonesense.

Wrong it is not nonsence, and I will explain.

First off we are talking about Windows application development on the future operating systems, not games.

BUT

Yes Longhorn does have a brand new rendering library for Windows!! and the .NET languages with managed code take advantage of that.

At work I developed in C++ professionally for YEARS. My whole team was asked to switch to C# for a test run awhile ago, and we have stayed with the language since then.

Our productivity shot up 39% and we get more done than ever. When you work on enterprise projects with a team there are always bugs, and most will be related to memory and buffers =] C# takes care of this and due to that fact sometimes MONTHS of development time are shaved off.

I have nothing against C++ as I have said.. I have been using it since a year or so after Bjarne first brought it mainstream... and it was slow and buggy back then compared to what we have now.

I mean even look at the DirectX SDK code. In C# you might need 10-15 lines of code instead of 200-300 lines of code in C++ =]

Firstly, since when aren''t games applications? Secondly, what is this new rendering library, and where can I learn about it. And I don''t see why anyone using C++ should need more than 10-15 lines to initialize DirectX.

By the way, increasing productivity by 39% is far from dividing development time in half/by one third.

Well, again he is talking about a Windows specific. So just because it is faster developing with a certain platform-specific SDK doesn''t translate to developers on other platforms using it on those platforms.

And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,gave proof through the fight that our flag was still there.Oh say, does that star-spangled banner yet waveover the land of the free and the home of the brave?

Imperil

100

January 11, 2004 08:58 PM

quote:Original post by cowsarenotevil
quote:Original post by Imperil
quote:Original post by cowsarenotevil
quote:Original post by Imperil
But when you can develop applications in 1/2 to 1/3 of the time in C# compared to C++, that is what professional developers will use.. because it is a business after all.

Please explain. Unless C# comes with a magical physics and rendering library, this 1/2 to 1/3 stuff is nonesense.

Wrong it is not nonsence, and I will explain.

First off we are talking about Windows application development on the future operating systems, not games.

BUT

Yes Longhorn does have a brand new rendering library for Windows!! and the .NET languages with managed code take advantage of that.

At work I developed in C++ professionally for YEARS. My whole team was asked to switch to C# for a test run awhile ago, and we have stayed with the language since then.

Our productivity shot up 39% and we get more done than ever. When you work on enterprise projects with a team there are always bugs, and most will be related to memory and buffers =] C# takes care of this and due to that fact sometimes MONTHS of development time are shaved off.

I have nothing against C++ as I have said.. I have been using it since a year or so after Bjarne first brought it mainstream... and it was slow and buggy back then compared to what we have now.

I mean even look at the DirectX SDK code. In C# you might need 10-15 lines of code instead of 200-300 lines of code in C++ =]

Firstly, since when aren''t games applications? Secondly, what is this new rendering library, and where can I learn about it. And I don''t see why anyone using C++ should need more than 10-15 lines to initialize DirectX.

By the way, increasing productivity by 39% is far from dividing development time in half/by one third.

The new rendering library for Longhorn is called "Avalon", which now makes everything in Windows processed in 3D.

Also I was not talking about initializing DirectX, I was talking about the actual examples where in C# you can take 20 lines or so to load a model, display, texture, etc where the comparable C++ example is a LOT more lines.

"By the way, increasing productivity by 39% is far from dividing development time in half/by one third."

Then you are unsure of how companies use percentages. Sure our productivity increased 39% overall, but on some projects we completed with between a 60-70% boost in productivity, and yes that is over half.

Also I think you might want to check your math, because increasing productivity by one third is (33%).. and you just stated that 39% is less than on third (33%) =]

Imperil

100

January 11, 2004 09:01 PM

quote:Original post by DevLiquidKnight
Yes, that statement is very bold. Besides if it is I'll be sure to be the first one to be one of the first to defeat the obscuring techniques just cuz its trying to kill c++ according to you -.- cuz im good at that stuff.

lol people call my statement bold compared to rubbish like this?

First off there are certain obfuscators people have not cracked yet. And there are many different obfuscator applications, versions, etc and things are easily changed.

Also I don't understand where you get this "kill C++" thing from? I hear SO MANY C++ developers state that like they are cowering in a corner scared or something.

C# was created to make development on future Microsoft operating systems easier and faster. If C# was created to "kill C++" as you state, than Microsoft would not continue to optomize the compiler and bring it up to ANSI standards as they are CONTINUALLY DOING!

Also low level code and drivers for Longhorn+ will still be written in C++ and ASM, not C#.

[edited by - Imperil on January 11, 2004 10:01:48 PM]

DevLiquidKnight

834

January 11, 2004 09:02 PM

My friend wrote a decompiler for C# im helping him so yea. What ever that is worth.

quote:Orginal post by Imperil
First off there are certain obfuscators people have not cracked yet. And there are many different obfuscator applications, versions, etc and things are easily changed.

Easily Changed -> Easily Defeated
There is only so many ways to do 1 thing

[edited by - DevLiquidKnight on January 11, 2004 10:09:14 PM]

PlayGGY

122

January 11, 2004 09:03 PM

I am not sure why we are still arguing. I think we can agree that C# will become very widely used with Longhorn (if it ever comes out

), but C++ will be more widely used since it is an all purpose cross-platform language. Unless Microsft can convince Nintendo and Sony to use C# with all of their consoles sure...), than game developers will probably just stick with C++, becuase it will be easier than writing it in C# and C++ (as you would agree).

[edited by - PlayGGY on January 11, 2004 10:04:12 PM]

And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,gave proof through the fight that our flag was still there.Oh say, does that star-spangled banner yet waveover the land of the free and the home of the brave?

Imperil

100

January 11, 2004 09:08 PM

quote:Original post by DevLiquidKnight
My friend wrote a decompiler for C# im helping him so yea. What ever that is worth.

[edited by - DevLiquidKnight on January 11, 2004 10:05:46 PM]

Wow it takes all of a few hours, one of the first things I did at work was write one to look at the code for the System namespaces.

You must not be using C# to develop because if its taking more than a few hours you are taking way too long.

If you were using C# you could use the dynamic compilation namespaces, Reflection namespaces, etc.

Any C# code not obfuscated should take no time. And I mean why would you write one instead of using the one that Microsoft supplies? rofl =]

[edited by - Imperil on January 11, 2004 10:12:08 PM]

Imperil

100

January 11, 2004 09:11 PM

quote:Original post by PlayGGY
I am not sure why we are still arguing. I think we can agree that C# will become very widely used with Longhorn (if it ever comes out ), but C++ will be more widely used since it is an all purpose cross-platform language. Unless Microsft can convince Nintendo and Sony to use C# with all of their consoles sure...), than game developers will probably just stick with C++, becuase it will be easier than writing it in C# and C++ (as you would agree).

[edited by - PlayGGY on January 11, 2004 10:04:12 PM]

I completely agree and I am not sure why others don''t see this.

C# WILL be the most popular language to program Microsoft Windows applications on in the future. I mean look at the amount of C# developers there already is and the OS isn''t released =]

BUT

C++ will remain standard for:

Linux (sure there is mono but you''re kidding yourself if you think all Linux development is going to move towards .NET, it is only there for compatability)
UNIX
MAC OS
Sony Consoles
Nintendo Consoles

Plus the million other devices that are electronic and programmed but not specifically thought of as "computers".

I mean C# will be the best in one area, but C++ will still triumph in about 100 others =]

PlayGGY

122

January 11, 2004 09:20 PM

quote:Original post by Imperil
quote:Original post by PlayGGY
I am not sure why we are still arguing. I think we can agree that C# will become very widely used with Longhorn (if it ever comes out ), but C++ will be more widely used since it is an all purpose cross-platform language. Unless Microsft can convince Nintendo and Sony to use C# with all of their consoles sure...), than game developers will probably just stick with C++, becuase it will be easier than writing it in C# and C++ (as you would agree).

[edited by - PlayGGY on January 11, 2004 10:04:12 PM]

I completely agree and I am not sure why others don''t see this.

C# WILL be the most popular language to program Microsoft Windows applications on in the future. I mean look at the amount of C# developers there already is and the OS isn''t released =]

BUT

C++ will remain standard for:

Linux (sure there is mono but you''re kidding yourself if you think all Linux development is going to move towards .NET, it is only there for compatability)
UNIX
MAC OS
Sony Consoles
Nintendo Consoles

Plus the million other devices that are electronic and programmed but not specifically thought of as "computers".

I mean C# will be the best in one area, but C++ will still triumph in about 100 others =]

End of discussion.

And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,gave proof through the fight that our flag was still there.Oh say, does that star-spangled banner yet waveover the land of the free and the home of the brave?

clum

217

January 11, 2004 09:36 PM

And besides linux is taking over the world! WAHAHAHAHA! Seriously, though, I think that as linux distro''s like SuSE and Mandrake which are tailored for home computers become more popular, Windows (and C# with it) will slowly fall to disuse. No one buys software when you can get free software just as well. And, sure, Windows is better for games and a few other things, that''s slowly changing around, especially since linux is currently targetted at programmers and as more programmers use it, more programmers will write for it as well. As a result, I honestly think that linux (or perhaps some successor of it) will outlive Windows. It will happen exponentially - the more people use linux, the more people will write for linux, which will result in more people using Windows. And that means that C++ won''t be dying out for a long time. I have yet to see a program written for linux without being written in C/C++, with perhaps the exception of a few Java programs which are cross-platform in any case.

Appologies if this post seems off topic, but...

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PlayGGY

122

January 11, 2004 09:43 PM

I really don''t see Windows going anywhere anytime soon. But that isn''t to say that it is the only platform, or even that the home computer is the only platform.

And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,gave proof through the fight that our flag was still there.Oh say, does that star-spangled banner yet waveover the land of the free and the home of the brave?

Is c++ gonna die

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