Ah, not to be a pain or anything, but seriously, if we go making a forum, we have to put some thought into it first. I don't think that the usual format will work, especially if we go with the course breakup idea I posited earlier. Maybe a forum with sub-forums (fora?) And also, will instructors get some new kind of teacher rank or whatever like staff?
Not to take over the thread or anything here, but with jwalsh's approval, I think we should seriously focus on getting a concrete design together (book/online material, format, etc.) maybe a big AIM or IRC pow-wow is in order?
C++ Workshop - Introduction
Quote:Original post by Photonman
Ah, not to be a pain or anything, but seriously, if we go making a forum, we have to put some thought into it first. I don't think that the usual format will work, especially if we go with the course breakup idea I posited earlier. Maybe a forum with sub-forums (fora?) And also, will instructors get some new kind of teacher rank or whatever like staff?
Not to take over the thread or anything here, but with jwalsh's approval, I think we should seriously focus on getting a concrete design together (book/online material, format, etc.) maybe a big AIM or IRC pow-wow is in order?
Yeah I agree, thats is if jwalsh wants this to turn into such a major event. Mabey he just wanted to keep it small and simple?
Granted I'm not jwalsh or a Staff member, but most likely he's gonna be a mod for that forum. That means he'll be able to control what threads are postable, stickies, or just plain announcments. A good example is the Interactive Game Programming/Making Forum. Also, more than likely, the Staff and Mods will force him to show a detailed design and outline of the course before giving him his own forum to reign over.
With that being said, I'd like to teach the (very) beginner's section.
With that being said, I'd like to teach the (very) beginner's section.
Quote:Original post by PhotonmanIt worked pretty well for Teej.
I don't think that the usual format will work, especially if we go with the course breakup idea I posited earlier.
Quote:Maybe a forum with sub-forums (fora?)If that's deemed necessary, then I'm afraid it'll have to happen somewhere other than GDNet. AFAIK our software doesn't support sub-forums.
Quote:And also, will instructors get some new kind of teacher rank or whatever like staff?Could be done - though a person can only have one title, so I'm not sure how it would be handled for people who are already GDNet+ (or for me [smile]). That said, is it really necessary? A sticky thread with short bios for each tutor would probably be a good idea in any case - would illustrate that the people running the show actually know what they're talking about - and that may be enough to identify them.
Author
All,
I am still investigating a good textbook.
From the research I did today I don’t think there's a best beginning book. Or at least, I haven’t discovered it yet. Each of the beginning books seem to focus on some things while leaving other things untouched. I think whichever textbook we go with, there will be things that are necessarily added by the tutors. We wont be able to rely on ANY textbook to provide complete information.
As for creating an online 'course,' where we develop an outline, write chapters, create quizzes, projects, etc...I'm all for it, but I don’t have the time to take on such a large project by myself. Its one thing to suggest reading, then make yourself available to answer questions and provide support...its quite another thing to write a 'virtual textbook' with complete accompanying coursework. So at the very least, a sort of consortium would need to be established for such a project.
Ultimately, I think a few things are needed for a good learning experience.
Reading Material: I still believe an established book would be the best thing to use as a textbook. With that being said, all books seem to be lacking in some areas, as I mentioned above. So an alternative approach would be to create a specific forum just for building the "chapters." We basically write an outline for the book, then break it up into chapters. Then we create threads on the different topics and allow people to submit information to be included in the chapters - compiling it all into a sort of community "bible" for the language. But the problem I can foresee is too many chiefs, not enough Indians - so to speak. Its hard to have an "expert" forum where everyone can claim expertise. So it might be better if a moderator (or moderators) compiles the information into a single resource. This may all be better suited for a Wiki format then a forum format, however.
Review Questions: Its important that people have their knowledge tested, so they know what they don’t know - so to speak. This makes it possible to do further research and ask further questions on the areas which still seem vague. So in addition to compiling a community textbook on learning the language, writing review questions from the information in the chapters would be useful.
Chapter Summaries: Just the fact ma'am.
Examples: Programming language textbooks are filled with paradigms and ideas that require many diagrams and example code. It would be quite a handful, but having enough examples would be essential.
Exercises: And without exercises, people don’t have an opportunity to get their hands dirty and their feet wet. This would probably be the most fun, but creating a list of exercises which require utilizing the information learned in the chapters would also be necessary.
All of the above would be great - but is a HUGE list of tasks. As well, something like this would require strong support and involvement from the moderators and staff of GD.net. Something which although would be cool, is a lot to ask for. At this point only superpig has really voiced much enthusiasm for the idea.
So with all of this, I think its probably better if we stick with the original idea. Just establish a textbook to use for people who want to learn the language, then stick to a reading schedule where people read 1 chapter a week. Perhaps set up a specific, separate forum from "For Beginners," and allow people to post questions about the chapters on those forums. Then tutors can come and answer the questions, suggest exercises, and fill in the blanks where things are missing in the chapters - so the people who are learning are able to get the extra help they need. We can post programming projects once a month for people who want the challenge and then go from there.
Of course, the staff and moderators might find it best to do something somewhere in between just doing a "support forum" for people reading through a textbook on a weekly basis and the HUGE project idea mentioned above. If people have a good compromise or have strong feelings one way or another, please feel free to speak up.
Cheers!
I am still investigating a good textbook.
From the research I did today I don’t think there's a best beginning book. Or at least, I haven’t discovered it yet. Each of the beginning books seem to focus on some things while leaving other things untouched. I think whichever textbook we go with, there will be things that are necessarily added by the tutors. We wont be able to rely on ANY textbook to provide complete information.
As for creating an online 'course,' where we develop an outline, write chapters, create quizzes, projects, etc...I'm all for it, but I don’t have the time to take on such a large project by myself. Its one thing to suggest reading, then make yourself available to answer questions and provide support...its quite another thing to write a 'virtual textbook' with complete accompanying coursework. So at the very least, a sort of consortium would need to be established for such a project.
Ultimately, I think a few things are needed for a good learning experience.
Reading Material: I still believe an established book would be the best thing to use as a textbook. With that being said, all books seem to be lacking in some areas, as I mentioned above. So an alternative approach would be to create a specific forum just for building the "chapters." We basically write an outline for the book, then break it up into chapters. Then we create threads on the different topics and allow people to submit information to be included in the chapters - compiling it all into a sort of community "bible" for the language. But the problem I can foresee is too many chiefs, not enough Indians - so to speak. Its hard to have an "expert" forum where everyone can claim expertise. So it might be better if a moderator (or moderators) compiles the information into a single resource. This may all be better suited for a Wiki format then a forum format, however.
Review Questions: Its important that people have their knowledge tested, so they know what they don’t know - so to speak. This makes it possible to do further research and ask further questions on the areas which still seem vague. So in addition to compiling a community textbook on learning the language, writing review questions from the information in the chapters would be useful.
Chapter Summaries: Just the fact ma'am.
Examples: Programming language textbooks are filled with paradigms and ideas that require many diagrams and example code. It would be quite a handful, but having enough examples would be essential.
Exercises: And without exercises, people don’t have an opportunity to get their hands dirty and their feet wet. This would probably be the most fun, but creating a list of exercises which require utilizing the information learned in the chapters would also be necessary.
All of the above would be great - but is a HUGE list of tasks. As well, something like this would require strong support and involvement from the moderators and staff of GD.net. Something which although would be cool, is a lot to ask for. At this point only superpig has really voiced much enthusiasm for the idea.
So with all of this, I think its probably better if we stick with the original idea. Just establish a textbook to use for people who want to learn the language, then stick to a reading schedule where people read 1 chapter a week. Perhaps set up a specific, separate forum from "For Beginners," and allow people to post questions about the chapters on those forums. Then tutors can come and answer the questions, suggest exercises, and fill in the blanks where things are missing in the chapters - so the people who are learning are able to get the extra help they need. We can post programming projects once a month for people who want the challenge and then go from there.
Of course, the staff and moderators might find it best to do something somewhere in between just doing a "support forum" for people reading through a textbook on a weekly basis and the HUGE project idea mentioned above. If people have a good compromise or have strong feelings one way or another, please feel free to speak up.
Cheers!
Personally it might be better to avoid a text book altogether. If the tutors are each assigned a topic to cover in a tutorial things would go quite smooth. It also leaves room for some healthy custom hands on practice assignments. The only reason is because alot of the people I see comming into the forums here don't have alot of money to spend on a book.
However, if a book is neccessary like you said it might be best to go with C++ Primer Plus by Prata. I used this book to get me started and with C++ and I thought it to be quite complete in explanations. Also, it was full of fun examples that actually have functionality people can relate to.
However, if a book is neccessary like you said it might be best to go with C++ Primer Plus by Prata. I used this book to get me started and with C++ and I thought it to be quite complete in explanations. Also, it was full of fun examples that actually have functionality people can relate to.
Author
All,
I'll continue my research of good books tomorrow. At this point, I'm trying to stick with books in the range of about $25 USD. I know most people can't afford to spend much on programming books. Which is unfortunate. If I had my choice we'd use Deitel & Deitel's "C++ How To Program." It's an amazing book in my opinion....but it rings up at $99 USD. (ouch)
Cheers!
I'll continue my research of good books tomorrow. At this point, I'm trying to stick with books in the range of about $25 USD. I know most people can't afford to spend much on programming books. Which is unfortunate. If I had my choice we'd use Deitel & Deitel's "C++ How To Program." It's an amazing book in my opinion....but it rings up at $99 USD. (ouch)
Cheers!
Well I wish you good luck on your search. I will run to my local book store tomarrow as well to see what I can find. Two people looking is better then one. Just incase I did not say earlier I think you idea is quite good.
Quote:Original post by jwalsh
All of the above would be great - but is a HUGE list of tasks. As well, something like this would require strong support and involvement from the moderators and staff of GD.net. Something which although would be cool, is a lot to ask for. At this point only superpig has really voiced much enthusiasm for the idea.
I don't know how much time I'd have available to act as a proper tutor, but I'd certainly be happy to help out where possible and to keep an eye on it from a moderation perspective of keeping it spam-free, keeping a handle on trolling, etc.
Also, a piece of advice:
You've taken the initiative to get started organising this, and that means you'll effectively be in charge of what happens (although you'll need to talk to the staff and any mods you'd like to help about what support/resources GDNet can offer). At some point you'll have to make decisions (such as what book to use), and there's usually no best option, so those decisions will be somewhat arbitrary - make sure you do actually make these decisions, otherwise we'll get stuck in an endless discussion over what should be done.
I would be very interested in you little class thing on the forums, i myself am using sams teach yourself C++ in 21 days fourth edition. ill keep up on this post, it would be great to be on the same page as everyone else for a change :)
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