I think we''re looking at this problem from the wrong point of view. Turning the mass of girls from casual players to buyers is not going to happen easy (before the first soap like Sims game - with story twists and all - try watching some soap operas - I''d swear they make them stories with a simple algorithm hint, hint). What will happen is that in each (good) game, some girls will come and play that game well. Mythical figures such as the girl who beat John Romero at a Doom deathmatch.
What if the question to ask is not how would the girls enjoy a game better, but how would the guys playing enjoy the girls who are playing better? And to be honest, I believe these two questions have the same answer.
How would you like this: This game plus webcam plus live audio? I bet some girls would be _very_ successfull at this game, and I also bet the guys playing will _like_ it. This may still work with but audio messages.
RPG Games For Girls!!!
Just to clear something up: I didn´t mention this before, as I had somehow assumed that it was clear anyways - I think most of us (me included) weren´t discussing games for girls in general (as in girls=the other half of the population 
), but as the part of the potential audience of computer games who are NOT playing games at the moment, or who are only playing small casual games.
I see that some of those who are typical core-gamers might feel offended by some of what´s been said here, but please bear in mind that most of what´s been discussed does not apply to you. Female core gamers are not relevant to this discussion, as they are already playing and happy with it.
Maybe another thing that has been neglected is the process of how to turn a casual gamer into a core gamer, so how about we have a look at some cases? It would be interesting (not only the female audience now) to see how people get into games, what the typical portal games are, etc.
Because what we should focus on is not how to make "games for girls", but how to get girls interested in the games we are making now, or how to change the games we are making now to make them interesting. I think that once you are inside the gaming thing it´s much easier to access new or different types of games.
So lets talk about the ideal portal game.
), but as the part of the potential audience of computer games who are NOT playing games at the moment, or who are only playing small casual games. I see that some of those who are typical core-gamers might feel offended by some of what´s been said here, but please bear in mind that most of what´s been discussed does not apply to you. Female core gamers are not relevant to this discussion, as they are already playing and happy with it.
Maybe another thing that has been neglected is the process of how to turn a casual gamer into a core gamer, so how about we have a look at some cases? It would be interesting (not only the female audience now) to see how people get into games, what the typical portal games are, etc.
Because what we should focus on is not how to make "games for girls", but how to get girls interested in the games we are making now, or how to change the games we are making now to make them interesting. I think that once you are inside the gaming thing it´s much easier to access new or different types of games.
So lets talk about the ideal portal game.
Author
The AP who posted the message, kudos! I''m glad you posted such a thoughtout message. I think that a game that has captured equally the attention of guys and girls is MYST and RIVEN. It had a good storyline, great artwork and intuitive game play... and you didn''t have a gun to go around killing the tree''s.
Thats not why girls and guys liked it... they liked it becuase it was something new. something different, and had an imaginative story tat made you keep playing.
So i guess the conclusion to this thread is that we should all work on better storylines, better character development, no matter what genre your game is in. If the story, imagery and characters are interesting enough, we''ll get a wider audience. And that is what the end of my studies has determined.
btw: it was girls from 14-40, didn''t get anyone terribly old, but well, i appreciated their time and again appreciate all the input on this thread, besides the namecalling and sexist accusing posters. I don''t think anyone on this thread is sexist, but may have said ignorant things. It helps to think your idea before typing it.
thanks again.
Thats not why girls and guys liked it... they liked it becuase it was something new. something different, and had an imaginative story tat made you keep playing.
So i guess the conclusion to this thread is that we should all work on better storylines, better character development, no matter what genre your game is in. If the story, imagery and characters are interesting enough, we''ll get a wider audience. And that is what the end of my studies has determined.
btw: it was girls from 14-40, didn''t get anyone terribly old, but well, i appreciated their time and again appreciate all the input on this thread, besides the namecalling and sexist accusing posters. I don''t think anyone on this thread is sexist, but may have said ignorant things. It helps to think your idea before typing it.
thanks again.
quote:Original post by digitaldirt
Thats not why girls and guys liked it... they liked it becuase it was something new. something different, and had an imaginative story tat made you keep playing.
AND because they did not have any blatantly sexist references such as a semi-nude leatherclad opponent or a female player character with boobs that would have made Pamela Anderson Lee blush.
Remember: if you''re turning people OFF from your game, it''s going to be very hard to pull them in again.
Diodor''s post about "portal" games, I think, is on the money. It''s not that girls (or anyone who''s not used to playing computer games)will never play games. It just hasn''t been marketed to them right. We need to make games that lure them from really casual games (solitaire) into the deeper recesses of game playing, games that actually take more than 10 minutes, and require a bit of attention.
I think it would have to be pretty gradual, and VERY easy to get into. Full-screen is out of the question to pull computer-illiterate people in. It scares the living daylights out of them to suddenly see that windows bar disappear. Remember, it probably took them a big leap of faith to just turn the PC on (think of your mom).
So you need a well-behaved, windowed game. It can have fancy graphics, but within the boundaries of the window. It can have fancy sound, but not to the point of overriding the windows sounds. It can''t have fancy controls, because the people using it will not want to see their mouse suddenly doing weird things on the screen, their pointer disappearing, their menu key-strokes suddenly doing completely different things.
Adventure games could be a really good start to this. They can fit perfectly into the paradigm, and there''s no real-time component to worry the not-so-adept computer user.
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
I think that if you make a game with a great story, good plot twists, and strong believable characters that guys and girls alike can relate to, then a girl will like it just as well as a guy. C''mon. We all know that guys and girls BOTH read books. Stories of interest keep people interested.
The story for my upcoming RPG (well not TOO upcoming, its a ways off) is interesting to not only me and my co-writer (GET THIS!! A Female!!!!) but my girlfriend likes it. If you are making an RPG, then make it worth continuing. Make it interesting.
The story for my upcoming RPG (well not TOO upcoming, its a ways off) is interesting to not only me and my co-writer (GET THIS!! A Female!!!!) but my girlfriend likes it. If you are making an RPG, then make it worth continuing. Make it interesting.
Author
Yeah, whats the deal with Diablo II with all the g-string chicks running around with spears? oh yeah, thats a believable story.
I hope there won''t be a Diablo III. I think Blizzard needs to invest their time in a new type of game. the whole warcraft, starcraft and diablo thing is kinda running on a bit long.
I hope there won''t be a Diablo III. I think Blizzard needs to invest their time in a new type of game. the whole warcraft, starcraft and diablo thing is kinda running on a bit long.
Author
Ferinorius,
Your game''s story is just about an exact rip off of Baldur''s Gate.
"Bring the memories and pain of that time my son, for I will listen. Your father is killed in front of your eyes. You can do nothing but cower.
Lightly he told you to run. "Why?" you thought. You hesitated but ran...
All too quickly the terror comes. Silver eyes pierce you. You run off. Your father...is....
Dead...it comes so quickly. Awaken my friend. The time is now for you to take up your sword and find the truth. You are Blade.
Emerge in a world where nothing is what it seems and everything you attach yourself to fades away. Your life is lead by an unknown force, yet you have to continue on...
Your destiny is chosen, and your tale is nothing but deception."
in Baldur''s Gate, nothing was what it seemed. And it was "deception" after deception after deception all the way to the end. Everything you trusted, was turned around on you.
Anyway, mabye it was a coincidence. You should pick up the game. and see the very similiarities that your story has with Baldur''s Gate. mabye try for something more original?
Anyway, keep us all up to date.
Your game''s story is just about an exact rip off of Baldur''s Gate.
"Bring the memories and pain of that time my son, for I will listen. Your father is killed in front of your eyes. You can do nothing but cower.
Lightly he told you to run. "Why?" you thought. You hesitated but ran...
All too quickly the terror comes. Silver eyes pierce you. You run off. Your father...is....
Dead...it comes so quickly. Awaken my friend. The time is now for you to take up your sword and find the truth. You are Blade.
Emerge in a world where nothing is what it seems and everything you attach yourself to fades away. Your life is lead by an unknown force, yet you have to continue on...
Your destiny is chosen, and your tale is nothing but deception."
in Baldur''s Gate, nothing was what it seemed. And it was "deception" after deception after deception all the way to the end. Everything you trusted, was turned around on you.
Anyway, mabye it was a coincidence. You should pick up the game. and see the very similiarities that your story has with Baldur''s Gate. mabye try for something more original?
Anyway, keep us all up to date.
quote:Original post by Diodor
How would you like this: This game plus webcam plus live audio? I bet some girls would be _very_ successfull at this game, and I also bet the guys playing will _like_ it. This may still work with but audio messages.
No, no, no. Last thing we need is to have to resolve to webcam and live audio on driving the female gamers cause you''re just turning the game into a chat interface.
quote:Original post by Hase
Just to clear something up: I didn´t mention this before, as I had somehow assumed that it was clear anyways - I think most of us (me included) weren´t discussing games for girls in general (as in girls=the other half of the population
I see that some of those who are typical core-gamers might feel offended by some of what´s been said here, but please bear in mind that most of what´s been discussed does not apply to you. Female core gamers are not relevant to this discussion, as they are already playing and happy with it.
Amen to that! Someone should have pointed this out in the first place.
To the AP poster above:
Temporary file site for GTW I am sure you will be most interested on the project as the majority of our artists are females. Not to mention we also have the forum "goddess" Sunandshadow as our main writer/producer. Please, email me before I implement some crazy long combo battle system into the game that no female gamer will ever enjoy performing.
Personally, I like to make games from a 1st person perspective - not graphically, but conceptually (adventure games where you don''t see yourself, turn-based games, etc...) This allows the player to play "as themselves". My last adventure game has been played by as many women as men. Not forcing the player to assume the role of a certain gender gives the game more appeal and allows the player to associate more with the protagonist.
Unfortunately, being a female gamer requires a certain amount of patience and tolerance - as the game world seems to produce games for a male audience - and games produced for female audiences are ridiculously stereotyped and outlandish, if not insulting. Even worse is the fact that the stupid posts in this thread mentioning how a game needs to be in pink just demonstrate what audience game companies think they have to market games too. Go to the forums on www.ghostrecon.com - there are entire threads dedicated to complaining about the fact that the game has female snipers. These types of displays of sexist attitudes only hurt the future of gender-neutral pc games.
Unfortunately, being a female gamer requires a certain amount of patience and tolerance - as the game world seems to produce games for a male audience - and games produced for female audiences are ridiculously stereotyped and outlandish, if not insulting. Even worse is the fact that the stupid posts in this thread mentioning how a game needs to be in pink just demonstrate what audience game companies think they have to market games too. Go to the forums on www.ghostrecon.com - there are entire threads dedicated to complaining about the fact that the game has female snipers. These types of displays of sexist attitudes only hurt the future of gender-neutral pc games.
quote:
Original post by MadKeithV
Diodor''s post about "portal" games, I think, is on the money.
That was Hase''s post. My post said that we shouldn''t worry about the casual girl gamers or even about the non gamer girls, turning those to serious gaming will not happen soon. Instead we should focus on bringing the few girl gamers that will read the manual and will play a complicated hardcore game in the center of attention and expect an increase in sales from the guy players.
The one idea that could do this (besides using large neon arrow signs) was bishop_pass''s Online politics and conquest RPG. The aim of that game was that real-life social skills would be a very important part in playing the game. That''s why I expect the few girls that would play such a game to be very successful, even if their in-game skills are not the best.
quote:
Original post by Mooglez
No, no, no. Last thing we need is to have to resolve to webcam and live audio on driving the female gamers cause you''re just turning the game into a chat interface.
Unless the chat is _part_ of the game.
This topic is closed to new replies.
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