MMORPG Roadmap Needed
Author
Like many of you, I''m a single programmer that dreams day-and-night of building a 3D MMORPG (or more-likely just a MORPG). Ideally, this would be an open-source project, which would allow many people from all over the world to contribute. Leads would have to be designated and would have to maintain final control over design and implementation. All of this would be managed via a web-based interface providing CVS, forums, chat, etc.
Personally, I have many years (3) programming experience in C & C++, but am just starting in 3D game development. I''m also very knowledgeable with relational database design and web scripting (PHP, ASP, etc.) My question is, can anyone offer suggestions for the best way to achieve this dream? I work a full-time job (web developer) so most of this will be done after work and on weekends.
Here''s my tentative plan (currently on 1 and 2):
1) Study common, fundamental 3D structures, functions, and algorithms (matrices, vectors, quadtrees, etc.) and learn to apply them to Direct3d and OpenGL (4 months)
2) Develop a flexible terrain generator including water, trees, dynamic weather, texture mapping, etc. (2-3 months)
3) Develop a demo which models an X file (from 3DS Max) and features multiple animations (running, sitting, swinging, casting, etc.). The model should also allow skins to dynamically be changed to accomodate different clothes, armor, etc. (2 months)
4) Develop a particle system which can be used for spell affects, water effects, combat animations, etc. (1 month)
5) Develop or find flexible OpenGL/Direct3D UI objects for use in the game''s interface (sliders, textboxes, spinners, etc.) (1-2 months)
6) Develop a workable client/server UDP demo (Winsock based). The server should be able to be ''fed'' from a SQL database (mySQL)(2-3 months)
7) Develop or find an auto-update system for propagating a revised client and its data. (1 month)
Obviously this isn''t enough to create the entire game, but I''m hoping it will be enough to get me to a point where I can start my engine with a minimal amount of rewrite. Am I leaving out any major components or under/over-estimating their complexity level?
Please feel free to email me if you have suggestions/comments or if you''d be interesting in working on something like this. Keep in mind that it will probably be at least a year before I actually start coding the engine unless I team up with someone much more further along than myself.
Brian Popp
bpopp [at] midsouth.rr.com
http://www.bpopp.net
Hmm... That doesn''t sound anywhere near a complete game. What about collision detection? Account management? Monster AI? RPG system (items, spells, character stats, combat rules etc)?
I do not want to put you down, I just want you to think it through once again. I don''t like how people start out their games by doing a 3D graphics engine, since that is actually the least important part (except for the UI). My suggestion is to spend less time on effects such as particles and dynamic weather, and instead spend more time on the RPG stuff.
If you want to save some time with the RPG rules I would sincerely suggest to use a completed system (such as D&D 3rd Edition)... I made the mistake by doing my own one... lots of more designing
Also it is almost impossible to do a RPG (of any kind) by yourself, since it takes a lot of time to make the content for the game (models, textures, sound...).
I''m not an expert on this subject, but I DO have some experience. I''ve been working on a game like this during my spare time (as you say you will) since September last year. As you can see at http://akarra.planetqs.com I haven''t gotten that far yet (even though I chose not to make a 3D engine), but I''m about to add my first monster now I''ll gladly help if you have any questions...
I do not want to put you down, I just want you to think it through once again. I don''t like how people start out their games by doing a 3D graphics engine, since that is actually the least important part (except for the UI). My suggestion is to spend less time on effects such as particles and dynamic weather, and instead spend more time on the RPG stuff.
If you want to save some time with the RPG rules I would sincerely suggest to use a completed system (such as D&D 3rd Edition)... I made the mistake by doing my own one... lots of more designing
Also it is almost impossible to do a RPG (of any kind) by yourself, since it takes a lot of time to make the content for the game (models, textures, sound...).
I''m not an expert on this subject, but I DO have some experience. I''ve been working on a game like this during my spare time (as you say you will) since September last year. As you can see at http://akarra.planetqs.com I haven''t gotten that far yet (even though I chose not to make a 3D engine), but I''m about to add my first monster now
I''ll gladly help if you have any questions...
Sorry to be discouraging, but if you need to ask how to go about such a venture then you almost certainly aren''t up to it. If you don''t know how long a certain subsystem will take to make, that implies you don''t know how to make it yet, which means that any estimate is not much better than a random number.
An MMORPG is the hardest type of game to make bar none. Your proposed roadmap says nothing at all about the game and only touches on the cosmetic 3D issues, which is just the tip of the iceberg. The networking side alone could be a major problem. And game mechanics - the stuff that really makes or breaks such a game - doesn''t even seem to be on your list of considerations.
3 years is not many years, by the way. I''ve been programming C++ for 6 years, was top of the year in the C++ tests last year, and have been using various languages for over 10 years. But I wouldn''t dream of taking on something so ambitious.
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An MMORPG is the hardest type of game to make bar none. Your proposed roadmap says nothing at all about the game and only touches on the cosmetic 3D issues, which is just the tip of the iceberg. The networking side alone could be a major problem. And game mechanics - the stuff that really makes or breaks such a game - doesn''t even seem to be on your list of considerations.
3 years is not many years, by the way. I''ve been programming C++ for 6 years, was top of the year in the C++ tests last year, and have been using various languages for over 10 years. But I wouldn''t dream of taking on something so ambitious.
[ MSVC Fixes | STL | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost | Asking Questions | Organising code files ]
Author
If you''ll notice, my original question was "can anyone offer suggestions to help my achieve this dream?", and not, "can anyone shatter my dreams into tiny little pieces?"
Seriously, I was a little misleading in my inquiry. I don''t intend to have a working game after following this roadmap. I am looking for a roadmap to help me gain the knowledge and experience to begin this project or to contribute to another similar project.
The reason I left AI, inventory management, account management etc., etc. off this roadmap is that I already feel comfortable with these facets of the game (of course, you had no way of knowing that). That, and I like the pretty pictures on the screen that blink and make noises.
[fade in: chariots of fire theme music] I completely understand the scope of this dream and don''t intend to finish it tomorrow. I know that I could easily spend the next five years working on this, but as far as I''m concerned, that''s a good thing. I''m not trying to get rich with this.. frankly, I probably make more money now than I would at the best gaming company. I just want to try-- and learn. If I can''t do it, or it''s an uninspired piece of crap, so be it-- I tried.
If you can''t understand that, even with those high C++ scores, then you most likely aren''t "up to it" either.
Seriously, I was a little misleading in my inquiry. I don''t intend to have a working game after following this roadmap. I am looking for a roadmap to help me gain the knowledge and experience to begin this project or to contribute to another similar project.
The reason I left AI, inventory management, account management etc., etc. off this roadmap is that I already feel comfortable with these facets of the game (of course, you had no way of knowing that). That, and I like the pretty pictures on the screen that blink and make noises.
[fade in: chariots of fire theme music] I completely understand the scope of this dream and don''t intend to finish it tomorrow. I know that I could easily spend the next five years working on this, but as far as I''m concerned, that''s a good thing. I''m not trying to get rich with this.. frankly, I probably make more money now than I would at the best gaming company. I just want to try-- and learn. If I can''t do it, or it''s an uninspired piece of crap, so be it-- I tried.
If you can''t understand that, even with those high C++ scores, then you most likely aren''t "up to it" either.
Well you see, the difference is that I have no problem with admitting I am not up to it. Which is why I''m not attempting it.
If you want us to give you a list of topics to research in order to make this possible, then you must give us a list of things you can do. Everything builds on everything else. I still believe you''re ignoring the really important aspects in favour of focusing on the 3D engine which you could just borrow or license anyway. If you read the MMORPG reviews and message boards, nobody gives a damn about the graphics. It''s either complaining about bugs (Anarchy Online), or complaining about game balance (all the others).
Or let me put this another way - go research how to make a first-person shooter. Then go and research how to make a computer roleplaying game. Then go look into how MUDs work. Finally, if you understood all those, think about how you''re going to put all three together into one coherent, stable, and enjoyable mass. Because until then, things like "flexible terrain generator" and having a server "fed from an SQL database" are just empty buzzwords until you know exactly what it is you need to achieve.
[ MSVC Fixes | STL | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost | Asking Questions | Organising code files ]
If you want us to give you a list of topics to research in order to make this possible, then you must give us a list of things you can do. Everything builds on everything else. I still believe you''re ignoring the really important aspects in favour of focusing on the 3D engine which you could just borrow or license anyway. If you read the MMORPG reviews and message boards, nobody gives a damn about the graphics. It''s either complaining about bugs (Anarchy Online), or complaining about game balance (all the others).
Or let me put this another way - go research how to make a first-person shooter. Then go and research how to make a computer roleplaying game. Then go look into how MUDs work. Finally, if you understood all those, think about how you''re going to put all three together into one coherent, stable, and enjoyable mass. Because until then, things like "flexible terrain generator" and having a server "fed from an SQL database" are just empty buzzwords until you know exactly what it is you need to achieve.
[ MSVC Fixes | STL | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost | Asking Questions | Organising code files ]
My intention wasn''t to shatter your dreams, just to make you realize what you are doing. I''d still prefer a good game with a bad 3D engine over a bad game with a good engine...
Hi bpopp,
here''s one who shares this dream Some more years of c++ and pretty good math knowledge on my shoulders but lacking in other areas (ai, networking, ...). I only recently started with OpenGL but am coming along quite nicely.
For me, its not so much about finishing this pet-project but about learning while doing it; finishing would be a huge bonus though. You never know if you can do something if you wont try it Thus I started with one of NeHes (BIG THANKS) tutorials and adjusted it to my style ... then began experimenting and adding to it. And everytime Im at a point where i dont get along any more I read up on appropriate sources (quote: reinventing the wheel teaches you why wheels are round).
Concerning focusing on the game enchine first: Its not about finishing a game, its about the way to get there. Sure you could use an existing engine but thats absolutely not what i want. Also engine comes first because you dont want to type pages of code without actually seeing anything.
Lack of RPG ideas/system/game mechanics: I have literally thousands of ideas for this project (which is the main reason i started it) ranging from implementational details to game philosphy. Im sure the same goes for bpopp.
Bottom line: You wanna do it? Then do it. You can only win (=learn) when trying. Though I recommend you aim for a limited environment first, so things dont overwhelm you, and expand on it later.
Oh, and contact me if interested
fabian.kreitner@ainea-ag.de
here''s one who shares this dream
Some more years of c++ and pretty good math knowledge on my shoulders but lacking in other areas (ai, networking, ...). I only recently started with OpenGL but am coming along quite nicely.For me, its not so much about finishing this pet-project but about learning while doing it; finishing would be a huge bonus though. You never know if you can do something if you wont try it
Thus I started with one of NeHes (BIG THANKS) tutorials and adjusted it to my style ... then began experimenting and adding to it. And everytime Im at a point where i dont get along any more I read up on appropriate sources (quote: reinventing the wheel teaches you why wheels are round).Concerning focusing on the game enchine first: Its not about finishing a game, its about the way to get there. Sure you could use an existing engine but thats absolutely not what i want. Also engine comes first because you dont want to type pages of code without actually seeing anything.
Lack of RPG ideas/system/game mechanics: I have literally thousands of ideas for this project (which is the main reason i started it) ranging from implementational details to game philosphy. Im sure the same goes for bpopp.
Bottom line: You wanna do it? Then do it. You can only win (=learn) when trying. Though I recommend you aim for a limited environment first, so things dont overwhelm you, and expand on it later.
Oh, and contact me if interested
fabian.kreitner@ainea-ag.de
I don''t think you understood what I meant...
You don''t need special effects like particles and weather to see the game. That is what I meant. If you want to make a kick-ass 3D engine you should make a FPS first, and then use that knowledge for a rpg later.
I wasn''t talking about "ideas", I just thought that it felt weird with a MMORPG project plan without taking RPG elements into consideration. RPGs aren''t easy to make... How does the character stats work? What item types should you have? How are the items and character stats linked together (ie item requirements contra item effects)? How does item trading work? How does the combat system work? How does spells work? etc etc
I feel like I''m not helping out much any more since I''m just defending my first post, so stop attacking me!
quote:Original post by Ketzer
Concerning focusing on the game enchine first: Its not about finishing a game, its about the way to get there. Sure you could use an existing engine but thats absolutely not what i want. Also engine comes first because you dont want to type pages of code without actually seeing anything.
You don''t need special effects like particles and weather to see the game. That is what I meant. If you want to make a kick-ass 3D engine you should make a FPS first, and then use that knowledge for a rpg later.
quote:Original post by Ketzer
Lack of RPG ideas/system/game mechanics: I have literally thousands of ideas for this project (which is the main reason i started it) ranging from implementational details to game philosphy. Im sure the same goes for bpopp.
I wasn''t talking about "ideas", I just thought that it felt weird with a MMORPG project plan without taking RPG elements into consideration. RPGs aren''t easy to make... How does the character stats work? What item types should you have? How are the items and character stats linked together (ie item requirements contra item effects)? How does item trading work? How does the combat system work? How does spells work? etc etc
I feel like I''m not helping out much any more since I''m just defending my first post, so stop attacking me!
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