I see a lot of people on this game design board claiming they know what''s wrong with roleplaying games etc etc.. but not many people are actively attempting to DESIGN a game. That IS what this board is about still.. designing? I mean, i can spout out problems left and right.. but unless you know the route of the problem.. it won''t help. So you should be ASKING, not yelling cause you''re annoyed at said problem. If you want to know why it doesn''t work right, try asking.. you might find out more that way, and you''ll certainly get heard more often. So.. think about the problems in the games and figure out why they''re not working right. Perhaps the software was coded badly. Think about what you would have it do, how you would improve this aspect of the game, and jot it down. Then find out if it''s possible within a few man-years Often, really great ideas can''t be implimented yet. I just picked up a book on creating 3d objects in games. It deals with how the current methods are quickly falling short of the mark, and how to improve the methods to create 3d objects in much less processor time. Right now, most 3d games require a massive video card. The problem with this is that you end up crunching out all those who don''t have a mega-machine. Hardware has adapted to the software, and we now have pixel-pushing video cards. That''s ridiculous, when a simply algorythm change can make a much greater impact! So if you see a problem.. and you want to make it better, first find out why the problem exists perhaps it''s bad coding.. but most likely it was forced to meet design times and the programmers had to take shortcuts. Sometimes it''s a simply lack of hardware (this used to happen a lot, rarely now). Other times the problem might be something more complex. I''m just urging people to take the time to slow down, think about things.. and ask or let us know what you think.. but don''t just criticize, it makes you look like you have no opinion other than "all others are wrong". J

Game design is not programming. If you want to talk 3d stuff go to one of the other forums available. Design is about actual game rules, and to a lesser extent concerns such as setting.

True most of the people here complain a lot, sometimes with good reason. However keep in mind that this is a forum. Let''s break up people into three categories: people who want to complain, people who have questions, and people who think things are just fine. People in the first two categories are most likely to post.

Annony, I merely used the 3d thing as an example, reread and try to understand.. or perhaps you can subscribe to an account and actually put weight behind your words


Landfish, I know someone has to complain about things to make people realize it''s a problem.. but when the same person complains about the same thing over and over, or many people about one thing.. it gets redundant. I''d like to have AI in my game which could encompass reality.. but it won''t happen tomorrow I just grow tired of people who whine about something yet when asked to fix it, back out of it and are like "well, i didn''t make it!" of course you didn''t.. but if you''re going to compalin and not have any idea what you DO want, only know what you DON''T want.. then how can we help you?! simple: we can''t design a game if people only tell us "we don''t want that" after it''s already done! ;p Obivously if something''s in there and it''s not to your liking, then it''s prolly you that''s the oddball Obivously they beta tested and SOMEONE liked it.. lol! Just think to when you impliment something and someone else hates it cause it''s now how they envisioned magic should work! ;p That''s why game companies don''t listen anymore, too many people whine about what''s not right.. so they end up just ignoring us and doing whatever they want to do. just my rant..

J

YO - slow down!

Right, it is all about designing but I´ve seen a lot of good ideas come from all the complaining. (If i ever do a RPG i have ideas in shiploads..)

And yes, I like to complain too - it´s good for you.

And I DO design too - not programming but as a graphics artist for a lil 2d-shooter project. Nothing as ambitious as a full sized RPG yet but if i keep complaining ....

That''s another good point.. almost all the complaining is over one specific misrepresented type of game.. the RPG. Very few "rpg" games actually put you in a good "role" to play. Often you''re simply stuck in a linear plot advancement, which.. while some are done well (fallout) others are horrid (baldur''s gate). What''s the fun of playing a role if you''re pretty muchly just gonna do the same actions regardless of what the player wants to do, in order to beat the game! How many games allow the player to take an evil approach to things? You''re always the super-hero well.. let the people play the super-villan!!
And what about action games, or strategy games, are they already perfect? I personally detest the fact that most arcade/action games have like 20 buttons that you have to press in psuedo-random generated sequences to make the character do some upteen million hit combo. While I was extremely good at Killer Instinct one and two.. i disliked the fact that if some dweeb had screwed up the control because they were flinging it around like a madman not knowing what to do (my cousin did this a lot).. then i couldn''t do a single thing since the joystick was broken. That''s part of arcade game design.. making the game withstand the shock of everyday use. Hell, imagine if your keyboard took that kind of pounding (i''m sure it might occasionally..). Do you think you''d be happy if the spacebar stopped working in a game that used it to fire or do some action? At home you at least have the option of remapping that function to another button.

So yeah, there''s plenty to complain about But RPGs seem to be taking all the flak. We can all agree they suck, but we can''t agree on why or how to fix it. So till then, us designers are just gonna get yelled at by people who''ve never even attempted to do something like this, and therefore have no real right to complain. if you don''t like it, yet aren''t willing to do anything about it.. shut up and sit down and let those of us who care do our jobs ;p

J

>So yeah, there''s plenty to complain about But RPGs seem to be >taking all the flak. We can all agree they suck, but we can''t >agree on why or how to fix it. So till then, us designers are >just gonna get yelled at by people who''ve never even attempted >to do something like this, and therefore have no real right to >complain. if you don''t like it, yet aren''t willing to do >anything about it.. shut up and sit down and let those of us >who care do our jobs ;p

First off, I''m not the previous anonymous poster. Second, I have almost ten years of experience in the industry, I don''t need to get registered to put weight behind my words.

You talk a lot of smack. Maybe you should hit us up with some credentials. Let''s see a design credit, eh? List of shipped titles? Anything?

us desighers? do our jobs? Am I missing something here?

$0.02

"ah, yes.. i''m the anonnymous poster with 50 years of game design.. er.. i mean, 10.. yeah, that''s right.. sorry, computers weren''t running games 50 years ago." Yeah, ok.. you don''t NEED to have a handle to make your words count.. but the rest of us need you to

Landfish, yes.. i''m complaining As you say, it''s how things get done. But i''m complaining cause so many people suggest some really wild stuff, but have no intention of actually carrying it through. How many people here are dead serious about game design as a career? Most people would LIKE to do that.. but i would LIKE to design jet planes and spacecraft.. and faster-than-light travel. It''s a dream for me, though.. I have the mechanical engineering ability of a two year old Yeah, i appreciate people bringing to light that there''s a problem.. but could they do it in a more sensable and peaceful fasion? It seems to me, coming into a board and just shouting "THIS GAME SUCKS" doesn''t seem very friendly to me. However, asking "does anyone else believe this game sucks?" and then explaining WHY you believe it sucks, and seeking the opinion of others.. THAT is a valid way to conduct professional business I know if ANYONE came to me with something like that, I wouldn''t even bother to send them a standard BS reply letter! If they can''t speak like they have a grasp of what exactly they''re mad at, and why they''re mad at it.. it does no real good. "Something is wrong with your game!" Ambiguity my friend That''s what i seek to eliminate. I just wish people would answer "why?" more often, before someone else has to ask them.

J