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flypp3r

What engine does halflife, quake2, and unreal use?

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quake 3 arena: quake 3 engine
half-life: half-life engine (I heard it''s the quake 2 engine, heavily modified)

... but don''t quote me on this

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Hello,

Id Software develops the famous Quake/Doom engines, which are then sold to game developers. Half-Life uses a heavily modified Quake 2 engine, there are other famous games that use this engine aswell. If I'm not mistaken Epic games develops the Unreal Engines, lately the Unreal Warfare Engine and they also sell it to game developers. Rainbow Six 3 - Raven Shield is build upon an early build of this engine and so is Americas Army, though they updated the engine build in a patch. There are alot of other companies making engines, a one that pops in to my mind is the crytek-engine. It's really cool i think, look at it here: www.crytek.de (available in english also).

Regards,
Deficte

[edited by - Deficite on May 27, 2003 9:08:32 AM]

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It seems you guys don''t know a lot of things.Well i''m here to tell you the stuff.First Quake3,Quake2,Quake1,Unreal use it''s own engines.The Unreal series use identical version(modified each time new game must come out) and it''s called "Unreal Warfare".ID software is writing a new engine each time they make a game.For John Carmack this damn easy.And for Half-Life...the truth might sound a little weird but Half-Life doesn''t used modified Quake2 system at all!!!!It uses modified Quake1 system!!!!!!!!!!!!How can we be sure you ask?Just download the Half-Life SDK used for creating mods and etc and check things like lightmaping(not RGB but simple grayscale ) or stuff like Q1 BSP levels or stuff like textures which size doesn''t get over 128x128 and so on!

"You losers better learn...NOONE CONTROLS OUR GOD DAMN LIFE!!!" - MANOWAR

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Extract from idsoftware.com about the Quake 1 engine: "Remember this engine is the foundation for what Valve did with Half-Life".

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For HL, Valve took the Quake engine, modified it to hell, included some Quake2 code and then modified it even more.. conservative estimates say that there is only about 20% orignal Quake code left after Valve rewrote it all.

And i''m pretty sure the games Unreal(2)/UT(2K3) use the ''Unreal Engine'' not the ''Unreal Warfare Engine'' which is basicaly a rolling developement all the time and just gets frozen when a game is released and then that game gets patches based on engine upgrades etc.

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quote:
Original post by Mihail121
It seems you guys don''t know a lot of things.Well i''m here to tell you the stuff.First Quake3,Quake2,Quake1,Unreal use it''s own engines.The Unreal series use identical version(modified each time new game must come out) and it''s called "Unreal Warfare".ID software is writing a new engine each time they make a game.For John Carmack this damn easy.And for Half-Life...the truth might sound a little weird but Half-Life doesn''t used modified Quake2 system at all!!!!It uses modified Quake1 system!!!!!!!!!!!!How can we be sure you ask?Just download the Half-Life SDK used for creating mods and etc and check things like lightmaping(not RGB but simple grayscale ) or stuff like Q1 BSP levels or stuff like textures which size doesn''t get over 128x128 and so on!

"You losers better learn...NOONE CONTROLS OUR GOD DAMN LIFE!!!" - MANOWAR


ID is not rewriting the engine each time, look at the Quake and Quake 2 sources, it''s more an evolution. It would be pretty dumb to rewrite a working system.
There is only one "Unreal" Engine. "Unreal Warfare" was only a working title for builds after Unreal Tournament 1.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
i beleive you want to know what TYPE of engine it uses and i beleaive they all use bsp engines

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Wow! Another person that knows about the CryEngine!! Everyone I tell about it, has never heard of it, a great lack of knowledge in my opinion...
It's just awesome, I think Unreal 2 and Doom 3 can go home and cry, probably why it's called the CryEngine...but that's my personal opinion anyway...

I'd also like to point out about all the other beautiful stuff done with the Quake I engine. (Thomas quake, FuhQuake, etc.) The newest modifications come pretty close to halflife if not even better.
You might want to take a look at the "Add More Frogs" (just look for AMF) quake. It's very impressive what you can do with the Quake I engine

[edited by - l3mon on May 27, 2003 11:22:53 AM]

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Are you sure that ID just evolve the things from on engine to another.I can gurantee than John Carmack has written a software and hardware(where possible) engine for all games till Q3(no software there).And about Half-Life...it''s pure Q1.Even if you don''t wanna face it the Valve guys will try to give you pure Quake1 with the new CS:Condition Zero so i suggest just to skip it.And i''m pretty sure that thing like "Unreal Engine" doesn''t exist.The engine used in ALL unreal games is "Unreal Warfare" optimized and changed for each new Unreal game.

"You losers better learn...NOONE CONTROLS OUR GOD DAMN LIFE!!!" - MANOWAR

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If you go to http://techsupport.vuinteractive.com/techsupport/sierra/support.asp(A link on the sierra website labeled 'knowledge base') and type "quake quake2 engine" (w/o the quotes) into the search box, then press the "Search" button, one of the first topics that comes up is "Half-Life: What engine does Half-Life use?", to which to the response is:

Problem:
Does Half-Life use the Quake 1 or Quake 2 engine?

Solution:
Parts of both. Half-Life uses parts of the original Quake engine and parts of the Quake 2 engine.

As others have said, each id game has a custom made engine, and the unreal series has its own engine that is upgraded constantly. Half-Life 2 uses a custom engine created from scratch by VALVE

[edited by - Extrarius on May 27, 2003 1:00:25 PM]

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FINALLY!!!I''ve thought i''ve never see a custom engine from that lazy bastards Valve which i don''t know how are alived.I think it''s only 10x to Mihn Li.Anyway it''s good to hear but better is that the release data with that of DOOM III is almost identical.I''ll just wonder what will be better :D.

"You losers better learn...NOONE CONTROLS OUR GOD DAMN LIFE!!!" - MANOWAR

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quote:
Original post by Mihail121
FINALLY!!!I''ve thought i''ve never see a custom engine from that lazy bastards Valve which i don''t know how are alived.I think it''s only 10x to Mihn Li.


I''m still trying to figure out exactly what this means...

The HL engine is, as has been already said, only about 20% iD code. The networking code is pure Valve, and so is most of the renderer (they had to rewrite it to support 16-bit textures).

So I''m not quite sure what you mean by ''lazy bastards.''

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.

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Why don''t you simply download the HL sdk and see for what are we talking......i won''t discuss here that there is actually no half-life engine or something like that.Just read some comments on some of the SDK files.

"You losers better learn...NOONE CONTROLS OUR GOD DAMN LIFE!!!" - MANOWAR

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quote:
Original post by Mihail121
And i''m pretty sure that thing like "Unreal Engine" doesn''t exist.The engine used in ALL unreal games is "Unreal Warfare" optimized and changed for each new Unreal game.



Pulled from the UDN page (Unreal Dev. Network)

"The Unreal Developer Network is a group of sites and services providing support and resources for licensees employing the latest builds of Epic Games'' Unreal engine (builds 600+)."

So, yes it IS called the Unreal Engine, NOT ''Unreal Warfare''.
The engine is constantly under developement (thus the build numbers) and is only feature frozen on game release (if you lience the engine from Epic you can get updates to the engine all the time).
Unreal2 uses a modified Unreal Engine (apprently the company who made Unreal2 made alot of changes to it).

As for HL Valve did ALOT of work taking teh Quake engine and upgrading it/changing it. As was already said the networking code is pure Valve (and i heard a rumor that Id licened it off them for Quake3, but i cant comfirm that), also the VGUI, client side predition/weapons, i think even some of the partical effects are new (keep in mind its been a while since i did any HL mod coding so thats a bit sketchy).
So there IS a HL engine and Valve aint lazy, considering the number of updates/patches they have done AND all the help they have given the community.

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As people have said, Valve made EXTREME changes to the engine to improve it in many, many ways. They moved it from palettized color(8 bit) to 16/32 bit color, created much improved AI, implemented client side prediction, improved the network code, added skeletal animation, added weapon decals(at least iirc Q1/2 didn''t have bullet decals etc), and probably a few other things I forgot. I''d also say making the SDK C++ was a big change as well (quake 1 used a custom scripting langauge that sucked even according to id, and iirc quake 2 used a C-based DLL).

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quote:
Original post by Extrarius
As people have said, Valve made EXTREME changes to the engine to improve it in many, many ways. They moved it from palettized color(8 bit) to 16/32 bit color, created much improved AI, implemented client side prediction, improved the network code, added skeletal animation, added weapon decals(at least iirc Q1/2 didn''t have bullet decals etc), and probably a few other things I forgot. I''d also say making the SDK C++ was a big change as well (quake 1 used a custom scripting langauge that sucked even according to id, and iirc quake 2 used a C-based DLL).


Much of the AI is in the game DLL (and therefore is not part of the engine). And I should know, I''m trying to rewrite the original Marine AI to be more devious. It is true, though, that the AI ''schedule'' system is more or less contained within the engine, and Quake1/2 didn''t have a general-purpose AI engine.

Q2 does indeed use a C-language DLL, which is a pain to navigate, relying on prefixes to function names (which are often unclear) and file grouping to group functionality. Valve''s move to C++ is, I think, one of the big things that made the game''s mod scene so successful. Modders didn''t have to learn a new language (which they may have done if Valve had used a scripting language), and had enough power they they could link into other things (like the mods which include in-game MP3 players, or can load up other mods and ''layer'' between them (bots are a prime example) ).

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.

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Unreal Warfare is a different name for the U2 and UT2003/2004 Engine, and I think that Unreal Warfare may be a game in development, but im not entirely sure. If you look at the version number on the patches for all the Unreal Engine games, you''ll see that they dont overlap, and they tell you what version the engine, is, not the game. Although each game does modify the engine slightly, it is still Unreal Engine.

Unreal & Return to Na Pali: 226b
Unreal Tournament: 436 (You can get a 451 patch from www.utpg.org)
Unreal II: 2001 (latest)
Unreal Tounament 2003: 2225 (latest)
Unreal Tounament 2004: Probably about 2300

UTPG has obtained the UT source code from Epic, and with Epics blessing, continues to modify and patch UT.

Also, the Quake Engine and Unreal Engines are fundamentaly different. Quake is a Brush based editing system, and Unreal is a Constructive Solid Geometry based system. One is starting with a void (Quake), and the other is starting with a huge block of clay, and cutting what you want out of it (Unreal). For more information, go to
http://unreal.gamedesign.net/articles/mtc.html
It''s a website called Wolf''s Unreal, and the article is about changing from Quake editing to Unreal. The article says Q2, but Q3 didn''t change. So, happy gaming.

Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.
- Sieze the present day, trusting the morrow as little as may be.
- Horace

He who fights with monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
- Friedrich Nietzche

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