quote:Original post by iNcOgNeT0
Well first of all i might suggest changing some names? Mourning star? thats just the name of a mace with a chain.

Close, the ball ''n'' chain is a morning star. The Mourning Star is also another name give to Lucifer in the Bible.

Great stuff... if it wasn''t for X-box, I think I''d be a little more enthused. If this isn''t going to be released on the computer, then I suggest releasing it on all systems, if you truly plan on releasing it.
I like the idea, and the fact that you worked on, or had something to do with, X Squared kinda boosted my interest. By what I saw on the X2 site, it looked cool.
The whole idea is great and I hope you keep with it.

quote:Original post by Luctus
Hate to go on about this, but isn't a ball + chain known as a flail?

This is a misunderstanding among games, due to the weapon's misrepresentation in both book and computer RPGS... But I've also found historical writings make this same mistake. Go find a good collection of weapons at a museum. (There's a REAL good one at the Chicago Art Institute right now!) Or for that matter, any site selling REAL weapons, not showing information on RPG weapons!

The mace is as we all know-- a short weapon around 2 or 3 feet long which was any mass weapon attached to the end of a stick. They can be just a ball, they can be flanged (which were REALLY good at tearing up plate armor), and some even had spikes on them... The Egyptians fashioned a stone disk at the end of a stick so the stick was at the center of the disk, and perpendicular to it. Oddly, there are very few other names for this weapon other than "club" used in common (SCA or RPG).

The flail is any stick with a mass attached to it by a flexible joint-- whether that be by just one loop on the end of the stick and one on the mass, or a chain or rope between the two. (In a way, the nunchaku is a kind of flail-- but there's no distinction between the handle and the mass) Again, the mass can be just a ball, have spikes, flanges, be square, whatever. They are STILL called flails when there are multiple masses connected by independant chains. The origins of this weapon are agricultural-- it was originally a tool used for thrashing wheat. (Or rice in the case of the numchaku) And like all good farm implements, they made REALLY good weapons because they were both easy to fashion and many peasants already had one.

The term "morning star" comes from the German work "morgenstern" which actually translates closer into "meteor mace"... The morgenstern was a long weapon-- not quite 6-8 feet like polearms such as the halberd and glaive, usually around 3-5 feet. Their heads were spiked masses, usually spherical, fixed upon a wooden shaft (where as some mace handles were metal). They were used primarily from horseback, but proved a good on-foot weapon as well. The techniques used by horsemen wielding this weapon worked just like the mace, but the on-foot technique is more like that of a halberd or glaive, not a mace.

There is NO CHAIN in a morning star!!!

I don't know what novel, rpg, historian, or whatever started that idea, but I'd sure like to find out.

-Desco-


[Editted for formatting, and added the sentance of history for the flail.]

[edited by - Desco on July 11, 2003 12:47:23 PM]

Off topic question, but... Sage, what happened to the Liquid Moon site?