Greg K.
Should gamedev be so hard?
Author
I was just wondering, why should people have to go through all the trouble of coding and stuff when there are alot easier ways to get things done without the loss of speed or quality? I was just wondering, creating games is like scripting and action movie and fleshing out our creative fantasies. Shouldn''t there be tools (like authoring tools but maybe a bit more portable) for those people out there who have a hard time reading code but REALLY want to design or work on game projects? It doesn''t seem fair, most people here are made out to be these math geniuses and claim they can do anything and enjoy the challenge of creating this advanced math 3d engine, but there is another half(and you all know it) that starts an ambitious project and fails to complete it because there is a segment of coding on the project that to them, becomes uhh, boring.
So before you call me an idiot or a retard or something like that, saying I should know this advanced math, I''m working on it, I''m in grade 10 now ( Wow i guess this leaves me open to replies from kids who learned C when they were 6, lol! ) and I''m reading books, but at least try to see it from my point of view
Greg K.
Greg K.
A couple things wrong with your proposition:
1. These game tools can never be so good that they can replace real coding. Therefore, there can never be games that are made with these tools as good as those that were "legitimately" coded.
2. The game tools you think of could never be as simple as:
CreateGame(QUAKE_LIKE, HIGH_QUALITY);
So those who really want to create a game, but don't want to work at all, won't make one anyway with these tools.
3. If everyone could make games, everyone would!
4. Game development does not involve too much number crunching and advanced math nowadays, even in 3d. Check out OpenGL (and probably D3D in DirectX 8) and you will see that a lot of the work is done for you. The most needed is matrix math (not too much), geometry, and algebra.
5. That "other half" that you speak of, the ones that can't finish their first project in cloning Half Life, do not really understand game development. You HAVE TO START SMALL! IMHO, of course. These people will never finish a game.
I have other reasons, but I just can't think of them right now
Martin
Edited by - lpsoftware on July 11, 2000 9:31:12 PM
1. These game tools can never be so good that they can replace real coding. Therefore, there can never be games that are made with these tools as good as those that were "legitimately" coded.
2. The game tools you think of could never be as simple as:
CreateGame(QUAKE_LIKE, HIGH_QUALITY);
So those who really want to create a game, but don't want to work at all, won't make one anyway with these tools.
3. If everyone could make games, everyone would!
4. Game development does not involve too much number crunching and advanced math nowadays, even in 3d. Check out OpenGL (and probably D3D in DirectX 8) and you will see that a lot of the work is done for you. The most needed is matrix math (not too much), geometry, and algebra.
5. That "other half" that you speak of, the ones that can't finish their first project in cloning Half Life, do not really understand game development. You HAVE TO START SMALL! IMHO, of course. These people will never finish a game.
I have other reasons, but I just can't think of them right now
Martin
Edited by - lpsoftware on July 11, 2000 9:31:12 PM
Greg - I understand fully what you are saying. But I don''t know if I can fully agree with you on some things. Do we really want Game Development to become so easy...and even moreso..is it possible to make it so easy. There are game creation tools like you mentioned, but they aren''t that great. To make a great game to fully embody your vision and your style, making it from scratch would be best. And don''t let other peoples Math and coding skills hold you back. I''m still a newbie at GameDevelopment, and I know it can be hard, but I am glad it is hard. Game Development is an art, if it were easy, then any dumbass could go around saying they made a game. Then what satisfaction could you get from saying you made a game if it were so easy to make one? I think busting your balls to get even a small feature implemented is incredibly satisfying when you know you did it. I completely see your view and understand what you are saying. Even though I suck compared to all of these "Math and Code Gods" in here probably, I never find programming to be boring. Its always fun for some reason.
I know what you mean. I suppose that the people with the creativity, but not as much mathamatical and programming knowledge are the ones who become "game designers" instead of "game programmers".
- Daniel
- Daniel
I see what you are getting at, but...
There is a big feeling between using something someone else made and something you made. Making your own tools/programs/games is half the fun. Where would the challenge be with out it?
Shrapnel Games
There is a big feeling between using something someone else made and something you made. Making your own tools/programs/games is half the fun. Where would the challenge be with out it?
Shrapnel Games
The truth is, there ARE such development plateforms. DarkBasic is just a good example of a simple game programming language that can none the less put out some impressive 3D content. People put out wrappers and high level API''s all the time, like CDX and so forth, that can help you if you want to go a LITTLE more low level, and at least work in C.
But to answer your question of why... Well, it stems from the fact that producing games is a business. Consequently, it''s compeditive, and each developer is trying to get the BEST graphics out. To do that, you need to keep up with the hardware, and moreover, stay CLOSE to the hardware, program wise, so everything is optimized from the ground up for YOUR game, and not everyone''s game. On the flip side, a lot of hobbyist developers are interested in achieving strange, original effects that would be very difficult to do, or to do fast enough, using some highlevel language. For instance, if you wanted to do texture mapped polygons in DarkBasic, well, that''s pretty much a snap, and your fine. But if you need Triangular NURBS''s, your stuck, because I don''t think the language can proccess it quickly enough because all the quick stuff is hiden to make it simpler.
If your more into just designing games, then I suggest using some language like DarkBasic, or some really high level API, to hide all the stuff you find doesn''t matter to you. I think there are even some commercial packages (Klick n'' Play) where you pretty much just point and click, but these tend to be somewhat limited. Or, find some programming people to do all the code stuff for you. In the end, It''s probably best to learn SOME programming, so you can at least get a feel for what other programmers have to do.
I''m am NOT a math genius. I don''t think I''d even register as a math simpleton. It just takes a little practice and reading, something I think all programmer can agree with, no matter how many levels of calculus they know. Same goes for game design. Just choose the best tools you need to get what you want done. Check out DarkBasic, or CDX.
Sorry for the long lecture, but there might be something of use up there, and I''d probably delete it if I messed with anything.
-- SH
But to answer your question of why... Well, it stems from the fact that producing games is a business. Consequently, it''s compeditive, and each developer is trying to get the BEST graphics out. To do that, you need to keep up with the hardware, and moreover, stay CLOSE to the hardware, program wise, so everything is optimized from the ground up for YOUR game, and not everyone''s game. On the flip side, a lot of hobbyist developers are interested in achieving strange, original effects that would be very difficult to do, or to do fast enough, using some highlevel language. For instance, if you wanted to do texture mapped polygons in DarkBasic, well, that''s pretty much a snap, and your fine. But if you need Triangular NURBS''s, your stuck, because I don''t think the language can proccess it quickly enough because all the quick stuff is hiden to make it simpler.
If your more into just designing games, then I suggest using some language like DarkBasic, or some really high level API, to hide all the stuff you find doesn''t matter to you. I think there are even some commercial packages (Klick n'' Play) where you pretty much just point and click, but these tend to be somewhat limited. Or, find some programming people to do all the code stuff for you. In the end, It''s probably best to learn SOME programming, so you can at least get a feel for what other programmers have to do.
I''m am NOT a math genius. I don''t think I''d even register as a math simpleton. It just takes a little practice and reading, something I think all programmer can agree with, no matter how many levels of calculus they know. Same goes for game design. Just choose the best tools you need to get what you want done. Check out DarkBasic, or CDX.
Sorry for the long lecture, but there might be something of use up there, and I''d probably delete it if I messed with anything.
-- SH
If gamedev was easy, it''d be boring! 
-----------------------------
-cow_in_the_well
http://cowswell.gda.ods.org/
-----------------------------
-cow_in_the_well
http://cowswell.gda.ods.org/
yeah I mean...that''s kinda like saying you are creative, and want to do art, but don''t feel like learning drawing, and just taking chunks of other peoples works and copying to make your own work. I don''t think that would be 1/10000 as satisfying as doing original work.
The only easy way, is the hard way. Hard work will get you there. If you''re not willing to work hard, too bad. Tools make it easy enough these days. Even Direct3D and OpenGL, they do everything for you. Years ago you would have to write all the rendereing rutines yourself.
So buy a book, and start learning
So buy a book, and start learning
why would you want an easy way out? the challenge and constant learning is what makes it fun. just when you think you''re on top of things, you soon find out that you''re a long shot off.
JoeMont001@aol.com | www.polarisoft.n3.net
JoeMont001@aol.com | www.polarisoft.n3.net
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