Must RPGs have a story?

Nazrix · 2000-11-01T19:30:59

Why is it almost everyone would say an RPG _must_ have a story to be an RPG, where an FPS does not have to have a story to be an FPS? People always compare the RPG experience to being like reading a book. Why must this be so? If you want an RPG to be like a book, you can read a book. You don't even to deal w/ the stupid battles impeding the precious narrative. I'm not even really talking about interactivity vs. linearity. I'm more talking about why _must_ RPGs contain a heavy overwhelming narrative that dictates what's happening? PnP RPGs (wouldn't this be where the term RPG was first coined? I may be wrong.) did have a history of the world and so on, but when it came to the actual player's experiencing the game I don't think many DMs had a sequential narrative laid out. If Quake had absolutely no story (meaning narrative) people would not notice, and people would still like it. Yes, I am using the tactic of the elusive Landfish. I just think this all has to do w/ our pre-conceived notions on what an RPG is. ""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator "All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. Edited by - Nazrix on 10/22/00 6:23:05 PM

Writing for Games Game Design

Started by Nazrix October 22, 2000 06:09 PM

94 comments, last by Nazrix 23 years, 6 months ago

dwarfsoft

1,237

October 25, 2000 08:43 AM

OK... Back On Topic now...

What if you just define a set of challenges or obstacles that are not necessarily on the same path. You have a linear ending with a non-linear story. The player chooses how to intercept each obstacle and passes each in a way that they see fit. By passing different obstacles, they follow different paths and therefore a different story. All is wound up at the end though into a neat little package

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

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ZoomBoy

162

October 25, 2000 08:59 AM

If the writing is good, then develop the plot.
But if it''s not, give the player more things to do, and to interact with.

ZoomBoy
Developing a 2D RPG with skills, weapons, and adventure.
See my character editor, old Hex-Tile editor, diary, 3D Art resources at
Check out my web-site

dwarfsoft

1,237

October 25, 2000 09:01 AM

I would really like to develop multiple plots with duplicity. This way there is yet another story to be told the next time the player chooses to start a game

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

- blog - twitter - LinkedIn

Nazrix

307

Author

October 25, 2000 01:42 PM

quote:Original post by dwarfsoft

OK... Back On Topic now...

What if you just define a set of challenges or obstacles that are not necessarily on the same path. You have a linear ending with a non-linear story. The player chooses how to intercept each obstacle and passes each in a way that they see fit. By passing different obstacles, they follow different paths and therefore a different story. All is wound up at the end though into a neat little package

There is a lot to this idea. I think that it is very true that a game can feel very different even if the plot doesn''t change drastically as long as the player''s interactions can change. We have spoken of how the game part is where the interactivity comes in. Well, if the interactivity is different then the game will feel different. I''d probably want to thrown some divergence into the plot anyway, but this is an important point I think.

"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd

"Though the course may change someimes the rivers always reach the sea" --Led Zeppelin

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. "Just don't look at the hole." -- Unspoken_Magi

AticAtac

337

October 25, 2000 03:38 PM

For being able to play a role in a rpg, we need an environment
where we can play this role. A story creats this environment !
It helps our mind to get creativ and build a virtual world.
If there is no story, then there should be at least the possibility to make a story while playing (actually this is what happening to us in the real life). This is something which could be done in a "heavy"-populated online rpg (we are getting close to real life), but in a single-player rpg i am afraid that the AI wont us allow to produce a convincable story while playing.
So a predefined story will help out of this.

Anonymous

October 25, 2000 04:14 PM

If you take the title "Role-Playing game" literally, then no, RPGs have no need for story by definition. I could make a FireFighter RPG, where my job was to play the Role of a firefighter. All that this neccessitates is that I fight fires, perhaps pull cats out of trees, sleep, eat, etc.

But when you consider this, most games currently called RPGs really aren''t. Your job in these games is NOT to play the role, but to reach pre-defined story points, or complete a chain of cause and effect.

Does it matter? As Landfish said earlier; Nazrix is right, but to what end? Sure we could change the title RPG, but that would solve nothing. And we could certainly make an RPG without story... ever heard of Deer Hunter? Armored core? Quake?

dwarfsoft

1,237

October 25, 2000 04:21 PM

AP, you missed the point. By changing it attributes, we are less limited as designers and writers in what we are setting out to achieve. It is not for the masses but for us to achieve something new and innovative... How come we are all unhappy with the way RPGs are now? Because they stick to the mouldy old rules. Let us clear away that and start anew. That is the end of the end, we create soemthing new

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

- blog - twitter - LinkedIn

Anonymous

October 25, 2000 04:37 PM

What is left of an RPG when you take away those moldy old rules? A simple video-game. If your resolution is to just make simple, good video-games, then I whole-heartedly agree.

sunandshadow

7,435

October 25, 2000 10:15 PM

For the record, Dwarfsoft (and others) popular conceptions of game genres do exist and they aren''t going to go away. If you think the current genres are confusing or useless the linguistic strategy to use is to create a new array of terms, publish these with definitions (e.g. start a new terminology thread), and then use these terms a lot and others will pick them up and use them. Words are contagious, you know.

I''m curious to see what you would consider to be more useful genre classifications.

I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me. I also love pet-breeding games.

Nazrix

307

Author

October 26, 2000 12:06 AM

S&S, that''s really not our point. We are aware that genres are inevidible in every medium. Our point is that internally, when we developers are thinking about the design for our games we should not think in terms of genres because it limits us. If you set out to make an RPG for instance we all have preconceived ideas of what the game must include as soon as we decide upon making an RPG. So, it blurs our design creativity by having these preconeived notions about what a genre must include.

See? I''m not talking so much about speaking of genres to other people or speaking of genres that other games fit in. That''s useless and often subjective. I''m talking about our internal ideas from a developer perspective. We must think in terms of what fits in our games and let the public put it in whatever genre they see fit.

"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd

"Though the course may change someimes the rivers always reach the sea" --Led Zeppelin

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. "Just don't look at the hole." -- Unspoken_Magi

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