flocking and pathfinding

This is just a suggestion but...

If you have a group of 5. Can''t you just plot a single path and tell the 5 to use that one path? Of course you would have to tell them to follow each other in some sort of a formation so 5 guys don''t try to cram themselfs on to one space/point all at the same time.


I think AOE2 uses a system somewhat like this..

AOE2 doesn''t actually use flocking. The only RTS I remember using flocking is Homeworld.

-Jussi

There are two articles in Gamasutra on this topic, written by the guy who did the troop movements algorithms for AOE. Very good explanations.
As for flocking, well, I''ll second selkrank on that one, though I am not totally sure it was "true" flocking, as described by Crawford.

youpla :-P

quote:

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Original post by frogant

howdy,

does anyone know of any RTS that uses flocking in conjunction
with pathfinding so that units are not sepparated from their
group, i.e. unit(s) in the rear of the group decides to go off
its own way when navigating through, say, a narrow pass?

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I used flocking in a RTS called ENEMY NATIONS (Windward Studios 1995) to manage AI player unit groups, in lieu of explicite formations. Also I used flocking in a FPS called REBEL MOON REVOLUTION (Fenris Wolf 1997) to manage squad formations of troopers and to provide formations for flying NPCs.

Flocking works well. There is a great article on flocking by Steven Woodcock (www.gameai.com) in the Game Programming Gems book (Charles River Media 2000).

Eric

quote:

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Original post by ahw

As for flocking, well, I''ll second selkrank on that one, though I am not totally sure it was "true" flocking, as described by Crawford.

youpla :-P

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Who is this "Crawford" you are attributing a description of "true" flocking to? Do you mean Chris Crawford?

If so, while Chris can surely lay claim to being the founder of the Computer Game Developers Conference (along with the help of quite a few other people), I think that suggesting he first described flocking might be incorrect. Craig Reynolds published a papar describing flocking in 1987 (http://www.red3d.com/cwr/boids/) and has been considered the "father of flocking" for some time, AFAIK that was the first "true" description of the technique.

If not, then I''d love to find out what Crawford''s description of flocking was. Do you have a link?

Eric

quote:

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Original post by Selkrank

AOE2 doesn''t actually use flocking. The only RTS I remember using flocking is Homeworld.

-Jussi

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I think a number of the RTS games use flocking, AOE/AOE2 included...it''s just too darn efficient not to use it, frankly. It''s rather more evident in Homeworld since you have a fully 3D environment to see it working in, but formations and flocking are natural combinations (after all, what''s a formation except a flock with particular rules?).





Ferretman

ferretman@gameai.com
http://www.gameai.com
From the High Mountains of Colorado

quote:

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Original post by Ferretman

I think a number of the RTS games use flocking, AOE/AOE2 included...it''s just too darn efficient not to use it, frankly. It''s rather more evident in Homeworld since you have a fully 3D environment to see it working in, but formations and flocking are natural combinations (after all, what''s a formation except a flock with particular rules?).

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Based on the Game Developer Magazine articles, I think AOE didn''t use flocking, but on the other hand, I don''t fully understand flocking, so I could be wrong.

-Jussi

MEA MAXIMA CULPA, my very great mistake, Geta.
I was referring to Craig Reynolds paper on boids, which as you point out, seems to be the only serious paper written on the topic. (I just dont seem to remember that name correctly)

youpla :-P

quote:

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Original post by Selkrank

Based on the Game Developer Magazine articles, I think AOE didn''t use flocking, but on the other hand, I don''t fully understand flocking, so I could be wrong.

-Jussi

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If you''re talking about my articles I sincerely apologize for not being more clear...AOE/AOE2 use a lot of different techniques for unit movement, flocking among them. Or at least that''s what they said at the various roundtables and such.





Ferretman

ferretman@gameai.com
http://www.gameai.com
From the High Mountains of Colorado

quote:

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Original post by Ferretman

If you''re talking about my articles I sincerely apologize for not being more clear...AOE/AOE2 use a lot of different techniques for unit movement, flocking among them. Or at least that''s what they said at the various roundtables and such.

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I mean this article (on Gamasutra) and the second part of the series.

-Jussi

quote:

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Original post by Selkrank

I mean this article (on Gamasutra) and the second part of the series.

-Jussi

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Aha, gotcha. Well, Dave''s article does reference flocking in the links at the end but he certainly doesn''t seem to in the article proper, I''ll grant. I think the article in question focuses more on the engine design details of coordinating unit movement, rather than how groups of units are moved. Checking my notes from the conference I see notes that Ensemble used a wide variety of techniques--influence maps, flocking, terrain analysis. Really quite impressive.





Ferretman

ferretman@gameai.com
http://www.gameai.com
From the High Mountains of Colorado

Hi

Our game demo "Hostile Encounter" does that behaveiour when moveing multiple selected units....
However you still have to do pathfinding for every unit IMHO if u want the to find the "right path" on a complicated map

check it out:
www.gdarchive.net/bogdanontanu/index.html
or
www.angelfire.com/games3/bogdanontanu/

Bogdan