Java is fast?

MasterQ · 2006-05-02T15:41:37

I read an article that said java is just as fast as C++ when it uses JIT compiling. It gave some tests and java actually outperformed C++. I've also noticed many video games like Runescape are being programmed in java. Will languages like java, C#, and VB.NET take over the game industry in the coming years? Now that the speed is just as fast as C++ there may no longer be any reason to use C++, just as there is no longer a need to write programs in assembly or machine language.

For Beginners

Started by MasterQ April 16, 2006 06:09 PM

110 comments, last by rip-off 18 years ago

jfclavette

1,058

April 17, 2006 12:35 AM

Quote:Original post by Lazy Foo
Quote:Original post by jfclavette
Says who ? Works pretty damn well for me.

Says the industry. You can switch tools whenever you want, but companies can't afford to gamble.

DirectX, Java, you-name-it wheren't adopted overnight. A technology has to prove itself first.

The same industry that just recently switched to C++ (and indeed not completely, as C is still widely used and assembly often rears its ugly head) ? I'll take another barometer thank you.

Plus, the industry don't give a crap about mono anyway. No one even use OpenGL anymore. They're already tied to Windows.

I teleported home one night; With Ron and Sid and Meg; Ron stole Meggie's heart away; And I got Sydney's leg. <> I'm blogging, emo style

Lazy Foo

1,113

April 17, 2006 12:43 AM

Quote:Original post by jfclavette
The same industry that just recently switched to C++ (and indeed not completely, as C is still widely used and assembly often rears its ugly head) ? I'll take another barometer thank you.

Which goes to show how resistant it is to change. C# isn't going to have a chance to stick it's foot in the door for years.

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Lazy Foo

1,113

April 17, 2006 12:47 AM

Quote:Original post by jfclavette
No one even use OpenGL anymore. They're already tied to Windows.

The DS, PSP, PS2, GC, Rev, and PS3 all use some form of OpenGL and don't use the windows operating system.

Learn to make games with my SDL 2 Tutorials

jfclavette

1,058

April 17, 2006 01:06 AM

Quote:Original post by Lazy Foo
Quote:Original post by jfclavette
No one even use OpenGL anymore. They're already tied to Windows.

The DS, PSP, PS2, GC, Rev, and PS3 all use some form of OpenGL and don't use the windows operating system.

Of course. I was talking about the PC.

Quote:and it's not like OpenGL is underdeveloped and undersupported like Mono.

[lol] Of course not. That's why you have to use an extension for pretty much anything that doesn't have its roots back in the nineties and why the studios go trough the pain of converting their OpenGL code to D3D on the PC. The OpenGL review board is probably the most innefficient organization on the planet.

Meanwhile, I'd still like to see how Mono is underdevelopped.

I teleported home one night; With Ron and Sid and Meg; Ron stole Meggie's heart away; And I got Sydney's leg. <> I'm blogging, emo style

The Reindeer Effect

211

April 17, 2006 01:15 AM

JIT code can outperform statically compiled code in certain situations specifically because there is runtime information present, even all the whole-program analysis in the world cant provide the sort of procedure-branch statistics that allow a hotspot compiler to optimize. I'm not sure how much this applies to game development, it really depends on the particular game's performance profile.

And Lazy Foo, you need to keep in mind this is website is populated mainly by hobbyists who do not have access to DS, PSP, PS2, GC, Rev, or PS3 devkits. Windows is the most common target platform, likely followed by linux. PC developers can take advantage of existing infrastructure (such as Java), whereas I'm supposing that a console developer is very limited and has to make a choice between additional systems programming or just getting to work on the game.

I can't honestly recommend Java for game development ... but I do recommend taking advantage of tools that increase productivity and if Java works for a developer, then it's all gravy. Java is not nearly slow enough to ignore it as a viable choice, doing so is by definition 'premature optimization'.

Lazy Foo

1,113

April 17, 2006 01:21 AM

Quote:Original post by jfclavette
Of course. I was talking about the PC.

That's not an excuse to ignore the industry as a whole.

Quote:Original post by jfclavette
That's why you have to use an extension for pretty much anything that doesn't have its roots back in the nineties

There's no correlation between the use of extensions being underdeveloped.

Quote:Original post by jfclavette
Why the studios go trough the pain of converting their OpenGL code to D3D on the PC.

It's the major 3D API on windows. It doesn't mean that OpenGL isn't undersupported just look at OpenGL at the GDC.

Quote:Original post by jfclavette
Meanwhile, I'd still like to see how Mono is underdevelopped.

It a new technology. C++ used to just be C with objects and it took time to reach its current level of development.

...Man this topic has been derailed.

Learn to make games with my SDL 2 Tutorials

Lazy Foo

1,113

April 17, 2006 01:25 AM

Quote:Original post by The Reindeer Effect
And Lazy Foo, you need to keep in mind this is website is populated mainly by hobbyists who do not have access to DS, PSP, PS2, GC, Rev, or PS3 devkits. Windows is the most common target platform, likely followed by linux. PC developers can take advantage of existing infrastructure (such as Java), whereas I'm supposing that a console developer is very limited and has to make a choice between additional systems programming or just getting to work on the game.

It doesn't really matter who or what has access to it when the argument is whether or not OpenGL is used in the industry.

Learn to make games with my SDL 2 Tutorials

Promit

13,404

April 17, 2006 01:30 AM

Quote:Original post by Lazy Foo
It doesn't really matter who or what has access to it when the argument is whether or not OpenGL is used in the industry.

On a console, you do not have a choice. On Linux or OSX, you do not have a choice. Therefore, examining OpenGL or the other respective APIs for those platforms is a meaningless and ultimately pointless exercise.

We then come to the Windows x86 platform, where you'll find Direct3D dominates. Draw your own conclusions as to why. I have my beliefs, but they're not terribly relevant.

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Lazy Foo

1,113

April 17, 2006 02:00 AM

Quote:Original post by Promit
Therefore, examining OpenGL or the other respective APIs for those platforms is a meaningless and ultimately pointless exercise.

1) All internet arguments are pointless.

2) When the claim "OpenGL is not used widely in the industry" it doesn't not matter why or how, all it matter is that it's used widely period.

When the whole industry is taken into account and OpenGL is used widely, "OpenGL is not used widely in the industry" is proven to be false.

Learn to make games with my SDL 2 Tutorials

Daerax

1,207

April 17, 2006 02:10 AM

Quote:Original post by Lazy Foo
Quote:Original post by Promit
Therefore, examining OpenGL or the other respective APIs for those platforms is a meaningless and ultimately pointless exercise.

1) All internet arguments are pointless.

2) When the claim "OpenGL is not used widely in the industry" it doesn't not matter why or how, all it matter is that it's used widely period.

When the whole industry is taken into account and OpenGL is used widely, "OpenGL is not used widely in the industry" is proven to be false.

Things are a bit (as in significantly) more complex than you paint them. There is no one language or API that is used, rather, what gets the task done most cleanly efficiently is used. Python, lua, xml, C++, proprietary language with C derived syntax, to name a few all find their place in the development of modern games. On the x86 PC you will find that the only people who still bother with/focus on OpenGL are academics who feel it necessary to make everything as difficult for themselves as possible.

MasterQ, do not worry about which language will dominate the market in x years, increase your skill by learning programming [concepts] in languages such as C# or Python (if games i suggest managed direct x 9 with c#)...when the time comes, you will find that it does not matter what language is in vogue, because you see, you will be able to program in a truer sense of the word. :)

Java is fast?

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