In CRPG-like games we always have NPCs sending us on quests telling us to do this or do that. Isn''t that just an excuse to get the player to explore the world? Why do we need NPCs telling us what to do? What if instead the world was out there, and the player explores things as they come along? This would go well w/ dwarfsoft''s idea about events & triggers I think. The basic point is that do we need NPCs ordering us around? "All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

Ok players can explore all by themselves without being given some specific tasks to explains their wanderings, but NPCs are there to give the player a feeling of involvment in the events around. How can the player feel involved if not by interacting with the NPCs ?The NPC quest system is quite limited, but so is the concept of quest. What we need is more detailled social interaction so that we do not have to resort to quest based system.

This is a good point of the Grysp system, they do not prepare quests, instead it''s the needs of the NPCs which may be fulfilled by the player or by other NPCs.

Dwarfsoft ideas allows to still have specificaly designed quests wich can take place in such a dynamic world. I think it is one of the few ways we can design stories in this kind of world.

Associate this with Madkeith''s ideas (I think) of a virtual GM wich would be able to choose the right NPC to hint the player in the direction of the story we are unfolding for him and you have a very flexible system which can adapt to the player.
So ordering is no longer needed, it is replaced by a natural interaction with the elements of the world...

Is this what you were thinking of Nazrix ?

Dungeon, yes, I think that's what I was thinking. I read about Gryps and it does sound good. Wav was talking about something similar before too.

Basically, I was envisioning NPCs being a source of information about the world and the goings-on. So, NPCs could tell you that there have been rumors for many years of a great treasure in a dark cavern rather than instructing you to go get it.







"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on February 13, 2001 7:11:57 PM

Naz! Come say Hi to Dwarfsoft in Tiberia

As to your post, some NPCs are bossy due to their status. For example, the King isn''t going to ask you nicely/beg you to do something, he''ll tell you to do it and expect you to listen.

On the other hand, most NPCs will request that you do something, usually in exchange for money or some other object, and you can ignore them if you like.

Bossy NPCs shouldn''t be the norm, but they can be an exception.


"NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ..." -- Merrick

"It is far easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it first passes through a blender" -- Damocles

morfe, damn...I'm at work so I can't come to Tiberia...damn firewall!

anyway, I wasn't really saying that NPCs should ask nicely (the subject about them being bossy was more a joke). I was asking what it would be like if NPCs didn't ask at all. Alternatively, like you said, if it were the exception and not the norm.

NPCs could just inform about the world most of the time then the player can explore that information at his/her leisure. I do realize that many games allow you to ignore the NPCs request, but still I just wonder if we need them telling us how to explore the world.

I realize also that NPCs are usually asking you to do something in exchange for something, but I think that's just a lame excuse to tell our players how to explore the world. I guess I am talking more of the lesser "side quests" particularly though.







"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on February 13, 2001 7:40:24 PM

Hey naz.. thought I would drop in on your topic and request you come to tiberia in about 5 mins

as for the topic -

NPC''s should be a little less pushy I agree. They should just give you useful information as to what you COULD do, but you should always have the oportunity to choose to do something else. As soon as I get back onto my computer I will be able to send you the code naz, but I will be working on getting it bugfree... It should solve the problem, and also it will give way for NPC''s to decide that you are not working fast enough for their wishes, so they refuse to give you any information at all .



-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

So you''re saying that instead of:

"Go here and kill this dragon and you''ll get a magic sword" (Sorry about the cliches)

You''d hear something like:

"I heard that the village of Ermeyer has been suffering from attacks by dragons again ..."

"Yes, it seems one of the young men stole his father''s sword and tried to kill it to impress one of the girls ..."

"Well, I heard it was an enchanted sword and there''s a big reward for it''s recovery ... if only I were twenty years younger ..."

All from three different people in different places...


"NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ..." -- Merrick

"It is far easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it first passes through a blender" -- Damocles

quote:Original post by dwarfsoft

Hey naz.. thought I would drop in on your topic and request you come to tiberia in about 5 mins

Sorry, man...I''m at work and I don''t think the firewall will let me access Tiberia

quote:
NPC''s should be a little less pushy I agree. They should just give you useful information as to what you COULD do, but you should always have the oportunity to choose to do something else.

I am proposing that they wouldn''t even say what you could DO so much as just give you info about the world in general (they wouldn''t even have to give out info if they don''t like you) then the player could explore that info if they want.

quote:
As soon as I get back onto my computer I will be able to send you the code naz, but I will be working on getting it bugfree... It should solve the problem, and also it will give way for NPC''s to decide that you are not working fast enough for their wishes, so they refuse to give you any information at all .

sounds great!

I am looking forward to seeing how you did it.







"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

quote:Original post by morfe

So you're saying that instead of:

"Go here and kill this dragon and you'll get a magic sword" (Sorry about the cliches)

You'd hear something like:

"I heard that the village of Ermeyer has been suffering from attacks by dragons again ..."

"Yes, it seems one of the young men stole his father's sword and tried to kill it to impress one of the girls ..."

"Well, I heard it was an enchanted sword and there's a big reward for it's recovery ... if only I were twenty years younger ..."

All from three different people in different places...

Yes, something like that. It just seems to me that the player will feel more in control that way...and IMO actually would be in a bit more control.

Of course, w/ that approach we'd be relying on curiousity more than reward (the sword). But I think rewarding curiousity and rewarding the player for taking the initiative to explore things the player hears about is good.










"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

Edited by - Nazrix on February 13, 2001 7:55:22 PM

I''m discussing it with merrick at the moment in Tiberia

But anyway, morfe- It could be things like that, but there should also be a choice about how the player can actually get the things they require (not just combat) and also from different sources . The dragon wouldn''t be the vital component, because an NPC might know that the prince had already defeated a dragon and got one of the swords... then you could just quest for the prince

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche