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Kibibytes are retarded.

Started by Mithrandir Jun 2, 2006 at 10:31 AM 228 replies 193.7k views

Original Post

Jun 2, 2006 at 10:31 AM

I got banned from wikipedia because I changed references to "kibibytes" back to their proper "kilobytes" in a bunch of articles. I was warned to stop it, at which point I got into a lengthy discussion about why the term "kibibyte" is entirely inappropriate for use (I'll give my argument in a bit). The wikipedia moderators ignored every point and said "we use kibibyte here, no exceptions". Of course, since I act very childishly sometimes when people act like retards toward me, I went ahead and changed about 50 pages to refer to "kilobytes" rather than "kibibytes", at which point they banned me for life. I can't say I'm surprised, I'm just effing pissed off that they blindly pretend to smarter than they actually are and use the "IEC Approved" terms kibibyte, mebibyte, gibibyte, etc, rather than the established kilobyte, megabyte, gigabyte, etc. Now, my question is, who the eff is stupid enough to actually use these new terms? Seriously. My arguments against "??bibyte" terms: 1) There is over 50 years of established parlance using "kilo", rather than "kibi". If we were to suddenly change the definition of "kilobyte" to mean 10^3 bytes, then we would immediately invalidate 50 years worth of documentation, literature, and customs. 2) Bytes are not SI units, and as such, should not be treated as if they were. 3) Computers are binary machines, and will always be binary machines (>2ary machines have been shown to be mathematically less efficient per cost than binary machines, and it is extremely unlikely that they will ever exist in the mainstream), and it makes no sense to try to shoehorn decimal units into a binary system. Memory in particular will always be measured in base-2 numbers. 4) Absolutely no one in the real world uses the ??bi- terms. Microsoft, Apple, etc. 5) The base-10 measuring of bytes was started by hard drive manufacturers trying to decieve customers by using inappropriate labelling to artificially inflate their drive sizes. By accepting their redefined definitions, we've just validated deception. 6) The terms just plain sound stupid. Kibibyte? What are they, dog food? Come ON! In conclusion, I will always use kilobyte to mean 2^10 bytes, and I will correct anyone who says anything different. I do not accept the new terms.

Ravuya

Jun 2, 2006 at 10:33 AM

Yeah, everyone knows kibibytes are retarded. That's why nobody uses them outside of Europe and pedantic distributions of software.

Alpha_ProgDes

Jun 2, 2006 at 11:10 AM

Honestly I rather them use Kibi or Mebibytes. That's how the vendors truly measure memory. When Seagate says their HDD is 1GB, it isn't 1024^3 bytes; it is actually 1000^3 bytes. But since consumers are so used to seeing Megabytes and most don't know what that actually means. The consumer has no idea that they are getting cheated out of a few hundred actual Megabytes. In short, it's false advertising.

Mushu

Jun 2, 2006 at 11:17 AM

You should evade the ban and change every instance of the word "kilogram" to "kibigram".

Ffh wikipedia bastards.

Ainokea

Jun 2, 2006 at 11:25 AM

Wow you get way to worked up about stuff that really doesn't matter.

Prozak

Jun 2, 2006 at 11:26 AM

Quote:
Original post by Ravuya
Yeah, everyone knows kibibytes are retarded. That's why nobody uses them outside of Europe and pedantic distributions of software.

Europe? What? Did I miss a sarcasm tag or something?

Mithrandir

Jun 2, 2006 at 11:44 AM

Quote:
Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
Honestly I rather them use Kibi or Mebibytes. That's how the vendors truly measure memory. When Seagate says their HDD is 1GB, it isn't 1024^3 bytes; it is actually 1000^3 bytes. But since consumers are so used to seeing Megabytes and most don't know what that actually means. The consumer has no idea that they are getting cheated out of a few hundred actual Megabytes. In short, it's false advertising.

See Item #5:

5) The base-10 measuring of bytes was started by hard drive manufacturers trying to decieve customers by using inappropriate labelling to artificially inflate their drive sizes. By accepting their redefined definitions, we've just validated deception.

I refuse to validate their deception.

And no, this is not how vendors truly measure memory. Memory is always stated in binary-bytes.

1GB of RAM = 1024MB of RAM = 2^20KB of RAM = 2^30B of RAM.

Unless we all start going around sounding like retards and saying "I just upgraded my RAM with 1.073 more Gigabytes! YAY!!!!"

Ravuya

Jun 2, 2006 at 11:46 AM

Quote:
Original post by Prozak
Quote:
Original post by Ravuya
Yeah, everyone knows kibibytes are retarded. That's why nobody uses them outside of Europe and pedantic distributions of software.

Europe? What? Did I miss a sarcasm tag or something?

Most of the sites I see kibibytes being used on are either European or Linux distributions. Or, um, Wikipedia.

North America is hilariously resistant to change (We still use CDMA! Hooray for us!) so most sites I see from here are still in kilobytes and megabytes.

Mithrandir

Jun 2, 2006 at 11:48 AM

Quote:
Original post by Ainokea
Wow you get way to worked up about stuff that really doesn't matter.

I made a few correct changes and they threatened to ban me.

Who's the one getting worked up here first?

Ravuya

Jun 2, 2006 at 11:50 AM

Quote:
Original post by Mithrandir
Quote:
Original post by Ainokea
Wow you get way to worked up about stuff that really doesn't matter.

I made a few correct changes and they threatened to ban me.

Who's the one getting worked up here first?

Wiki-drama is a losing game. It's even more losinging than ratings or forum drama.

Coward

Jun 2, 2006 at 11:50 AM

Quote:
Original post by Mithrandir
In conclusion, I will always use kilobyte to mean 2^10 bytes, and I will correct anyone who says anything different. I do not accept the new terms.

See.. Their line of thought proberly goes something liek this:

Quote:
Thoughts of Wikipedian moderators
We're just effing pissed off that he blindly pretend to smarter than he actually is and use the established kilobyte, megabyte, gigabyte, etc, rather than the "IEC Approved" terms kibibyte, mebibyte, gibibyte, etc.

It's a standard. Wikipedia decided to use it. If you want to edit wikipedia - follow their rules.

Mithrandir

Jun 2, 2006 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Original post by Coward
Quote:
Original post by Mithrandir
In conclusion, I will always use kilobyte to mean 2^10 bytes, and I will correct anyone who says anything different. I do not accept the new terms.

See.. Their line of thought proberly goes something liek this:
Quote:
Thoughts of Wikipedian moderators
We're just effing pissed off that he blindly pretend to smarter than he actually is and use the established kilobyte, megabyte, gigabyte, etc, rather than the "IEC Approved" terms kibibyte, mebibyte, gibibyte, etc.

It's a standard. Wikipedia decided to use it. If you want to edit wikipedia - follow their rules.

Except... Wikipedia is a community project where the users define the rules. I participated in discussions about my reasonings (compounded by the fact that 99% of the world uses KILOBYTE for 2^10 bytes), and they ignored me.

A standard is defined by the vast majority of the people who use it. If some asshat agency came by and said that a foot is now 10 inches, that doesn't mean it's a standard. It's not a standard until people actually use it.

I'm not alone in this view either.

Regardless, I've already admitted that they were right to ban me, since I blatantly broke the rules, the intent of this thread was to rant about the utter stupidity in using the terms "kibibyte", etc.

capn_midnight

Jun 2, 2006 at 12:22 PM

wow, I have NEVER heard of the term kibibyte. I agree, it sounds retarded.

BTW, operating systems list disk sizes in base 2 units. The *only* source of the base 10 units is hard drive manufacturers. It seems to make more sense to me to make them change, since they are in the minority, than it does to make everyone else change.

polly

Jun 2, 2006 at 12:25 PM

Maybe I'm just not l33t enough... but I've honestly never heard the term 'kibibyte' before now. Who on earth came up with it, and why?

Jon

Alpha_ProgDes

Jun 2, 2006 at 12:25 PM

Quote:

And no, this is not how vendors truly measure memory. Memory is always stated in binary-bytes.

1GB of RAM = 1024MB of RAM = 2^20KB of RAM = 2^30B of RAM.

Unless we all start going around sounding like retards and saying "I just upgraded my RAM with 1.073 more Gigabytes! YAY!!!!"

Last time I saw a 20GB HD, it said in very very very small print that 20GB meant 20 billion bytes. Last time I saw: 20 billion bytes != 20 GB

Mithrandir

Jun 2, 2006 at 12:30 PM

Quote:
Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
Quote:

And no, this is not how vendors truly measure memory. Memory is always stated in binary-bytes.

1GB of RAM = 1024MB of RAM = 2^20KB of RAM = 2^30B of RAM.

Unless we all start going around sounding like retards and saying "I just upgraded my RAM with 1.073 more Gigabytes! YAY!!!!"

Last time I saw a 20GB HD, it said in very very very small print that 20GB meant 20 billion bytes. Last time I saw: 20 billion bytes != 20 GB

Again, just because the hard drive manufacturers say one thing, that doesn't make it true. They are decieving everyone.

And ALL system/flash memory is measured in base-2 units. Computer memory has been measured in base-2 units since the beginning of computing, and the ONLY thing changing the definition does is confuse the hell out of everyone.

This is just a bunch of pissy scientists who are angry that they can't figure out base-2 math easily.

Toolmaker

Jun 2, 2006 at 12:33 PM

Where do I sign up to KIBIgram shit?

Alpha_ProgDes

Jun 2, 2006 at 12:33 PM

Quote:
Original post by Mithrandir
Quote:
Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
Quote:

And no, this is not how vendors truly measure memory. Memory is always stated in binary-bytes.

1GB of RAM = 1024MB of RAM = 2^20KB of RAM = 2^30B of RAM.

Unless we all start going around sounding like retards and saying "I just upgraded my RAM with 1.073 more Gigabytes! YAY!!!!"

Last time I saw a 20GB HD, it said in very very very small print that 20GB meant 20 billion bytes. Last time I saw: 20 billion bytes != 20 GB

Again, just because the hard drive manufacturers say one thing, that doesn't make it true. They are decieving everyone.

And ALL system/flash memory is measured in base-2 units. Computer memory has been measured in base-2 units since the beginning of computing, and the ONLY thing changing the definition does is confuse the hell out of everyone.

This is just a bunch of pissy scientists who are angry that they can't figure out base-2 math easily.

Exactly. That's why I'd rather these HD manufacturers say their HDD drives are 20GiB instead of 20GB.

I think we are saying basically the same thing, but from opposite ends. [smile]

edit: I apologize. My definition of Gibi and Giga were skewed. Please carry on with your righteous rant.

giveblood

Jun 2, 2006 at 12:34 PM

If Microsoft doens't use Kibibytes, then there's no such thing. I would write a letter to these "standards organizations" and give them a piece of my mind. Changing things will just make computers more confusing for everybody who doesn't spend their life on one.

jfclavette

Jun 2, 2006 at 12:35 PM

Well, the biggest fuck-up was using kilo, mega and giga in the first place regardless of the etymology of the prefixes (or by using dodgy approximations anyway).

kilo- means 10^3, not 2^10.
mega- means 10^6, not 2^20.
giga- means 10^9, not 2^30.

I can't bring myself to blame the disk vendors when they are actually the only ones who got it right. As for wether it's worth it to try and change that stuff back... I don't know.

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