Quote:Original post by MSW
Huge heavy feet help make toys stand up...but try running around, duplicateing those WH40K actions, with 50lbs of clown shoes strapped to each foot...throws your balance off big time.
Zero gravity
'Space Marines', good or bad design/storyline?
Zero gravity
Author
Yes, a hip is different from a knee.
But a knee on Soldier A works the same as on soldier B, as well as C, D E F G H I J K L M,...
A hip joint on Soldier A works the same as on soldier B, as well as C, D E F G H I J K L M,...
But a knee on Soldier A works the same as on soldier B, as well as C, D E F G H I J K L M,...
A hip joint on Soldier A works the same as on soldier B, as well as C, D E F G H I J K L M,...
Quote:Original post by LessBreadQuote:Original post by MSW
Huge heavy feet help make toys stand up...but try running around, duplicateing those WH40K actions, with 50lbs of clown shoes strapped to each foot...throws your balance off big time.
Zero gravity
(sigh)...Once again, REALISTICLY what is the point of such exosuits in the vast vaccume of space? In space were close combat is measured in thousands of miles? Where with a boost in resolution our modern radar sytems could easily detect from orbit something as small as a paperclip between here the moon some the 280k miles away?
The suit is powered, so it accounts for its own mass, using microprocessor-controlled cyroscopic doodads and whozits. Think of it more like a vehicle, like the loader from Aliens. You stand in it, but you aren't really "wearing" it, in the conventional sense. It doesn't have to conform to your body at all times, it just has to respond to your movements (synaptic interfaces are already in their infant stages) and always be positioned such that it is in an approximation of your stance, allowing you to fit inside it.
Heinlein explained it in Starship Troopers. Yes, you can push a button and wipe your enemy from the galaxy with nuclear warheads and railguns, just as you can chastise a child by throttling the life out of it or stab a man for treading on your shoe. It is not always appropriate or wise to escalate a conflict to the maximum possible expression of force, and so a lesser force, more judiciously applied, is often called for. Re-usable units armed with precise, small-yield weapons and guided by human judgement at the point of contact is a powerful implement of the civil government at war.
Heinlein explained it in Starship Troopers. Yes, you can push a button and wipe your enemy from the galaxy with nuclear warheads and railguns, just as you can chastise a child by throttling the life out of it or stab a man for treading on your shoe. It is not always appropriate or wise to escalate a conflict to the maximum possible expression of force, and so a lesser force, more judiciously applied, is often called for. Re-usable units armed with precise, small-yield weapons and guided by human judgement at the point of contact is a powerful implement of the civil government at war.
Quote:Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
The suit is powered, so it accounts for its own mass, using microprocessor-controlled cyroscopic doodads and whozits. Think of it more like a vehicle, like the loader from Aliens. You stand in it, but you aren't really "wearing" it, in the conventional sense. It doesn't have to conform to your body at all times, it just has to respond to your movements (synaptic interfaces are already in their infant stages) and always be positioned such that it is in an approximation of your stance, allowing you to fit inside it.
Heinlein explained it in Starship Troopers. Yes, you can push a button and wipe your enemy from the galaxy with nuclear warheads and railguns, just as you can chastise a child by throttling the life out of it or stab a man for treading on your shoe. It is not always appropriate or wise to escalate a conflict to the maximum possible expression of force, and so a lesser force, more judiciously applied, is often called for. Re-usable units armed with precise, small-yield weapons and guided by human judgement at the point of contact is a powerful implement of the civil government at war.
The loader from Aliens was a special effect, it wasn't real and would not work as designed without a lot of magic.
The reason you cannot carry a large TV with the same ease as the empty box it came in has so very little to do with strength. Its because that large TV represents a much larger percentage of your bodies weigth then an empty box...its mass effects your mass; its center of inerta effects your own. The aliens loader simply can't cart around a fully loaded cargo container with the same ease as it would a empty one, and strength has nothing to do with it.
Our feet have less mass then our shins, which have less mass then our thighs...strapping on 50lbs clown shoes changes this (more or less mimics the depiction of such suits in WH40K)...again strength has nothing to do with this...its about inertia in motion, staying in motion...kicking that foot forward to run seems pretty trivial to us....add mass (and thus inertia) to it that is a greater percentage of your overall mass (as in WH40K) and the inertia of that foot kicking up and forward can effectively cause the overall suit to do a backflip onto its butt.
And please, enough with the Heinlein ST stuff. Its ain't even one of his own favorite works. It was written entirely for a juvenille audiance, and reflects this...That he stuck people in exosuits...to fight exoskeleton aliens...very "to fight your enemy, you must become your enemy" seems to fly right over most peoples heads. enough already :P
Quote:Original post by MSWQuote:Original post by LessBreadQuote:Original post by MSW
Huge heavy feet help make toys stand up...but try running around, duplicateing those WH40K actions, with 50lbs of clown shoes strapped to each foot...throws your balance off big time.
Zero gravity
(sigh)...Once again, REALISTICLY what is the point of such exosuits in the vast vaccume of space? In space were close combat is measured in thousands of miles? Where with a boost in resolution our modern radar sytems could easily detect from orbit something as small as a paperclip between here the moon some the 280k miles away?
I realize my comment was sparse, but zero gravity doesn't necessarily mean in the vacuum of space. Consider that just as US Marines serve on board US Naval craft, Space Marines would hypothetically serve on board space craft, with the possibility that during combat such ships could become damaged and loose their artificial gravity and life support and would thus be prime targets for boarding. That is where/when close combat would be a possibility. In addition, there is also the possibility of close combat in low gravity low atmosphere locations, such as the moon or on heretofore unknown small planets.
But it isn't just the shoe, it's a whole leg. The shin of the suit weighs more than the boot, and the thigh of the suit weighs more than the shin, so the relative mass is not as drastically altered as your "clown shoe" metaphor makes it seem. The moment of intertia of alarge weight on a long light rod is extreme, true, but if the rod is of the same stuff as the weight, it becomes less unbalanced. Still heavy hence the sci-fi propulsion systems to do for the metal what your muscles do for your body, but not balanced to make you flip over when you walk.
DId you even think that through?
Likewise, the exosuit would be less agile than an unsuited man, but it wouldn't be a Garry's Mod freakshow.
DId you even think that through?
Quote:the inertia of that foot kicking up and forward can effectively cause the overall suit to do a backflip onto its butt.Where does that kinetic energy come from? I can put on heavy boots and it doesn't cause my legs to spasm out of control with each step as I try to rein in the increased inertia of my foot's forward momentum, it's just heavier, so I work harder to accelerate that foot to its normal walking motion.
Likewise, the exosuit would be less agile than an unsuited man, but it wouldn't be a Garry's Mod freakshow.
Quote:Original post by LessBread
I realize my comment was sparse, but zero gravity doesn't necessarily mean in the vacuum of space. Consider that just as US Marines serve on board US Naval craft, Space Marines would hypothetically serve on board space craft, with the possibility that during combat such ships could become damaged and loose their artificial gravity and life support and would thus be prime targets for boarding. That is where/when close combat would be a possibility. In addition, there is also the possibility of close combat in low gravity low atmosphere locations, such as the moon or on heretofore unknown small planets.
Real physics != Star Trek physics. Artificial gravity doesn't exist. Even Babylon 5 gets it wrong trying to rotate one section of thier ships while the rest maintains axis alignment...even then inorder to reproduce anything close to 1G those roateing sections would need to spin 2 to 10 times faster then depicted onscreen.
Real ships will have TWO equal mass COUNTER rotating sections for gyro stableization during spaceflight. And even then, with that much mass, it would take days, or even weeks for those sections to slow down. Just as it take days or even weeks for the roateing sections to get back up to speed.
At that point, what good will bulky power armer do if they can't fit them through the tiny passages onboard such ships?
Besides, the main point of power armer is the additional strength to haul around so much more stuff...in low to zero gravity this becomes largely moot anyhow :P
Quote:Original post by MSWQuote:Original post by LessBread
I realize my comment was sparse, but zero gravity doesn't necessarily mean in the vacuum of space. Consider that just as US Marines serve on board US Naval craft, Space Marines would hypothetically serve on board space craft, with the possibility that during combat such ships could become damaged and loose their artificial gravity and life support and would thus be prime targets for boarding. That is where/when close combat would be a possibility. In addition, there is also the possibility of close combat in low gravity low atmosphere locations, such as the moon or on heretofore unknown small planets.
Real physics != Star Trek physics. Artificial gravity doesn't exist. Even Babylon 5 gets it wrong trying to rotate one section of thier ships while the rest maintains axis alignment...even then inorder to reproduce anything close to 1G those roateing sections would need to spin 2 to 10 times faster then depicted onscreen.
Real ships will have TWO equal mass COUNTER rotating sections for gyro stableization during spaceflight. And even then, with that much mass, it would take days, or even weeks for those sections to slow down. Just as it take days or even weeks for the roateing sections to get back up to speed.
At that point, what good will bulky power armer do if they can't fit them through the tiny passages onboard such ships?
Besides, the main point of power armer is the additional strength to haul around so much more stuff...in low to zero gravity this becomes largely moot anyhow :P
Artificial gravity doesn't exist yet, but hey, as far as we know galactic empires and interstellar travel don't exist either, so if you want to start getting overly pedantic you'll demolish the entire projection.
If the main point of power armor is the additional strength to haul around more stuff, then it wouldn't be called armor and the guys wearing it wouldn't be combat troops but stevedores in the logistics corps.
Quote:Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
Likewise, the exosuit would be less agile than an unsuited man.
EXACTLY!
If it hasn't the agility to pick itself up from a fall...then its a waste of engeneering effort.
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