Thanks for your input Tom, I hoped you'd post.
I'm not looking to land a job in a studio. I already have my own company set up for providing contracting work. I'm thinking more along the lines of doing this purely for fun, to try and get some of my ideas into games when I can't do it alone.
Good point about "worth". By "worth" I mean "is there a significant chance that a well-presented idea could motivate a committed voluntary team"?
Can you lead an amateur/hobby/independent game as JUST the designer & PM?
Quote:Original post by d000hg
Good point about "worth". By "worth" I mean "is there a significant chance that a well-presented idea could motivate a committed voluntary team"?
I would say so. Look at all of the fantastic projects all over the internet that have taken off over the years. Beyond having a well-presented idea though, you're going to have to be flexible as well. You have to be willing to accept input from your team members. If you establish a need for team members, not code monkeys or pixel pushers, you can do alright.
Quote:Original post by d000hg
The argument that many game developers have their own ideas is valid, but then I imagine many developers would rather be led than have to be in charge.
This can be a dangerous assumption. Though there are many professionals that are dedicated to their particular discipline and are content just practicing it, there are just as many that would like to run with their own ideas. This doesn't necessarily mean that they'll want to manage the project such as budget, schedule, etc. However, many developers hope for the opportunity to convey their own visions through a project and will probably be offended if you don't include them in the design process to some extent. One of the primary reasons for joining a small team is to have the opportunity to contribute your ideas and get noticed. Artists, programmers, or level designers that just want to practice their trade may as well work for a large company if they don't care about pursuing their ideas.
D-Zero wrote:
>I already have my own company set up for providing contracting work.
In games? Performing what role? Got industry experience? Got industry contacts?
>I'm thinking more along the lines of doing this purely for fun, to try and get some of my ideas into games when I can't do it alone.
Your present ideas are unlikely to find a receptive audience, unless you happen upon one of the sometimes (not often) seen queries "I wanna program but I have no ideas," and even then it's likely that the aspiring programmer won't accept many of your ideas, won't be able to program them anyway, or will lose interest in collaborating shortly after getting started.
>Good point about "worth". By "worth" I mean "is there a significant chance that a well-presented idea could motivate a committed voluntary team"?
No, not a significant chance. I think where you're likely to find resistance is when you start with the idea rather than with the team. IMO, you need to start with the team of talented amateurs and/or volunteers, then brainstorm together what the team would like to work on, and you collaborate with them to define the joint idea in detail.
>I already have my own company set up for providing contracting work.
In games? Performing what role? Got industry experience? Got industry contacts?
>I'm thinking more along the lines of doing this purely for fun, to try and get some of my ideas into games when I can't do it alone.
Your present ideas are unlikely to find a receptive audience, unless you happen upon one of the sometimes (not often) seen queries "I wanna program but I have no ideas," and even then it's likely that the aspiring programmer won't accept many of your ideas, won't be able to program them anyway, or will lose interest in collaborating shortly after getting started.
>Good point about "worth". By "worth" I mean "is there a significant chance that a well-presented idea could motivate a committed voluntary team"?
No, not a significant chance. I think where you're likely to find resistance is when you start with the idea rather than with the team. IMO, you need to start with the team of talented amateurs and/or volunteers, then brainstorm together what the team would like to work on, and you collaborate with them to define the joint idea in detail.
Author
Quote:Original post by Tom SloperI'm the architect and development lead on a privately funded MMO (I can't go into any detail really).
>I already have my own company set up for providing contracting work.
In games? Performing what role? Got industry experience? Got industry contacts?
Quote:Original post by d000hgQuote:Original post by Tom SloperI'm the architect and development lead on a privately funded MMO (I can't go into any detail really).
>I already have my own company set up for providing contracting work.
In games? Performing what role? Got industry experience? Got industry contacts?
OK, you answered half of the questions.
Collaboration basically boiled down to a trade in services; Alice has skills in game programming, Bob has skills as an artist, they both need the other's skillset so they team up.
If I were hypothetically looking for a project and you were offering project management, you'd need to show that your skills were worth something to me. This is tricky, as good project management happens behind the scenes. You'd probably need to have evidence of a couple of completed projects that you managed, plus experience in dealing with the more business side of things if going commercial; accounting, marketing, etc.
The other problem is that people consciously or subconsciously assess potential projects for risk (at least I do), and the project lead by a full-time designer/manager has a bad rep, as you've noted. I'm also wary of indie projects that a large in size; I'm more fond of the smaller projects with one to three developers; and you don't need a full time manager for a team of that size. It's only the larger teams that need a full-time manager who spend their time exclusively on coordination, but they tend to work harder than anyone.
If I were hypothetically looking for a project and you were offering project management, you'd need to show that your skills were worth something to me. This is tricky, as good project management happens behind the scenes. You'd probably need to have evidence of a couple of completed projects that you managed, plus experience in dealing with the more business side of things if going commercial; accounting, marketing, etc.
The other problem is that people consciously or subconsciously assess potential projects for risk (at least I do), and the project lead by a full-time designer/manager has a bad rep, as you've noted. I'm also wary of indie projects that a large in size; I'm more fond of the smaller projects with one to three developers; and you don't need a full time manager for a team of that size. It's only the larger teams that need a full-time manager who spend their time exclusively on coordination, but they tend to work harder than anyone.
Author
Let me be a little more detailed.
* I would act as project manager, technical manager (in collaboration with the lead programmer and lead artist) and lead designer (actually writing the design doc).
*I would not be expecting people to just be code monkeys. I'd specifically like people who do want to have creative input, so we can discuss lots of ideas.
*As far as it being "my game", I'm thinking I'd initially present a page or two "selling" the idea. This would try and capture the core aspects of the game, how I visualise it looking to the player, and some of the things that make it unique. This would be the vision for the project, and that's about as far as I would go in telling people what the game is going to be... everything at a more detailed level would be up for discussion.
*I'm not saying I won't do ANY development work. I just wouldn't be doing the majority, or being the lead developer.
* I would act as project manager, technical manager (in collaboration with the lead programmer and lead artist) and lead designer (actually writing the design doc).
*I would not be expecting people to just be code monkeys. I'd specifically like people who do want to have creative input, so we can discuss lots of ideas.
*As far as it being "my game", I'm thinking I'd initially present a page or two "selling" the idea. This would try and capture the core aspects of the game, how I visualise it looking to the player, and some of the things that make it unique. This would be the vision for the project, and that's about as far as I would go in telling people what the game is going to be... everything at a more detailed level would be up for discussion.
*I'm not saying I won't do ANY development work. I just wouldn't be doing the majority, or being the lead developer.
I just really can't imagine ever wanting to join such a team. If someone wants to 'manage' me, I expect them to pay for the privilege. If I wanted to contribute to something for free, I'd expect to do so on an ad-hoc basis to a project that someone else has already started, not to be a volunteer employee with obligations.
What if the roles were reversed? What if I as a programmer asked people to volunteer to do all the project management (and by that loosely defned term I mean mainly timetabling and talking nicely to people to keep them motivated)?
Wouldn't a potential volunteer project manager worry that the team wouldn't listen to him (not having the benefit of his expertise, so not understanding his reasoning) and that he'd have too little overall input into the final product to make his work rewarding? These would be my worries as a potential volunteer programmer.
You imagine many game developers would prefer to be led.... do you imagine many project managers would prefer to be led? See I'm seperating the 'leader' role from the timetabling 'producer' role. If a programmer or artist provided the game design and had the final say on the project's direction, would you be interested in doing the relatively dull planning work required to realise it?
I may be wrong, but somehow I doubt it.
Wouldn't a potential volunteer project manager worry that the team wouldn't listen to him (not having the benefit of his expertise, so not understanding his reasoning) and that he'd have too little overall input into the final product to make his work rewarding? These would be my worries as a potential volunteer programmer.
You imagine many game developers would prefer to be led.... do you imagine many project managers would prefer to be led? See I'm seperating the 'leader' role from the timetabling 'producer' role. If a programmer or artist provided the game design and had the final say on the project's direction, would you be interested in doing the relatively dull planning work required to realise it?
I may be wrong, but somehow I doubt it.
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