Crafting system for (fantasy) mmorpg

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13 comments, last by Delphinus 15 years, 6 months ago
Quote:Original post by ShadowBit
Quote:Original post by Cpt Mothballs
Just have item crafting as a sub-class or something.

I've played a few mmorpgs where that's how it works, do you know what the result is? everyone is a figther/mage, everyone is able to craft, most of them do, and the game world is full of items that nobody will buy because about everyone can make its own (and the few ones who actually are interested more in crafting than fighting get frustrated).


Also, when everyone can craft, crafting becomes useless. Like they say in "The Incredibles", "when everyone is special, noone is".
Everyone becomes self-reliant, and that works against player interaction. There is no need to contact other players to trade with them.

To counter that "everyone will just make an alt", simply make a limit on characters. If you make a character limit of - for example - two characters per server, then a player can only have a crafter next to his adventurer, and thereby he can only specialize in a single craft. Many players would probably take two adventurer characters and no crafters, so that way crafters will be fairly rare.

voilá - a game where players need each other and will interact meaningfully. Isn't that what MMO's is about?
Quote:CalvinI am only polite because I don't know enough foul languageQuote:Original post by superpigI think the reason your rating has dropped so much, Mercenarey, is that you come across as an arrogant asshole.
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Quote:Original post by Mercenarey
Also, when everyone can craft, crafting becomes useless. Like they say in "The Incredibles", "when everyone is special, noone is".
Everyone becomes self-reliant, and that works against player interaction. There is no need to contact other players to trade with them.


I'd counter that everyone being able to craft isn't the problem - it's everyone being able to craft to the same degree of quality. In my opinion, a class-based system is a bad idea in the first place, and to have a crafting-only class (presumably reducing combat skill) just prevents crafting players from accessing the whole of the content (which is normally designed towards combat-orientated players). Raiding, looting, farming for gear - this is what we lose. Not that I enjoy designing repetitive gameplay like this, but players of an MMO expect it - and in an MMO, players are your primary source of income. I wouldn't like to know that I'd been denied a major part of gameplay just because I enjoy crafting more than fighting. I challenge you - what is the harm in allowing players to be a renaissance man for once - a jack-of-all-trades? They may not be the master of one, but they sure as hell get all the content they want. Balanced properly, an open class system is, in my opinion, far superior to a closed class system. Let me give you a simplifyed example: In Angels Online (which I played for a short time), you can choose 8 skill areas. The pre-made classes have a specific choice of these, but they can be swapped out at any time. I simply swapped Heavy Armor skills for Medium Armor skills, traded in Axe and Hammer skills for Magic Skills, and there I had it - a Magic Swordsman, or Spellsword.

With a properly-balanced open class system, players can become what they want to be, rather than what the designer wants to write for. You can dispense with class-specific gear, and simply give gear out with shifted stats. Class-specific quests also go out the window, but these can be rewritten in with checks on the player's skill (for example, if the player has 10 offensive magic skills, they may get the 'Master Wizard's Plea' quest).

In short, use an open-class system instead. It's better for players, allows them to see more content for their money, and also prevents economical recessions that were being talked about above by making only weak items readily available to the general public, while they'd need to see a specialist crafter for the really good items.
Dulce non decorum est.
As far as crafting goes.

I'd like to see crafting being made into sort of a mini-game (as was mentioned about). So when crafting an item, the quality or result of the item is dependant on ur proficiency in playing the mini game.

I'll start with an easy example, but one that doesn't quite apply to fantasy games to give you an example.

Imagine a sci-fi MMO where 'hacking' a network involved a tron like game (could be any of the usual tron classics) where the difficulty depended on the level of the item/network being hacked. As you became a more accomplished hacker, u could get bonus weapons, or powerups to make hacking low level networks/items easier, and making higher level hacking do-able. Its doesn't have to be a long mini-game, but more skilled players could progress faster due to skill, while given enough time everyone could still level up (get enough points at the low levels to get better hacking tools, ect...). There's a whole continuum of options from total skill based to only semi-skill based, semi-time based. You could have easter eggs open up new recipies or abilities (ie. hack a network in less than 1min, or hack a network without use of x ability, or what have you) opening up specializations or discoveries.

Another simple example would be lock picking in thief.

How would u apply it to a fantasy crafting system? Alchemy could be a klax type mini-game where incoming 'reagents' react with each other in a series of vials (obviously the UI would be different than the standard klax convayor belt setup, but the gameplay would be similar). Or perhaps a puzzle bobble type setup, where the play screen is a flask that u shoot reagents at bubble to 'reduce' them.

Blacksmithing could be closer to a game of whack-a-mole or the old school mario-paint game where u smacked flys. Or imagine it closer to a game of time crisis. You could use a button to heat the metal, then have to hammer out imperfection in a short amount of time. You only get 'x' hammers per 'reheat' (it would be similar to firing at enemies then reloading). Meaning u have to hammer fast and accurate. The final stats of the item could be a % of ur final score. Different recipies would correspond to different levels.

Or it could be like a para-rappa the rapper game (a rhythm game) with different hammers/tools/actions mapped to different buttons. As u learned a recipe a master blacksmith (ie. NPC) could hammer the item out and u'd have to repeat each sequence (heat, tap, tap, tap, heat, hammer, tap, hammer, ect...).

The possibilities are endless and people would go nuts at how much fun just crafting stuff is. And they don't have to be in-depth or complicated. Just play a game of mario party to get an idea of the plethora of mini-game ideas that are out there.

Bottom line is if there is no player interaction in the crafting process, its gonna be boring no matter how you cut it.
Delphinus:
Personally I prefer an open skill system, but I guess the end result is somewhat similar to what you propose with an open class system.

I just don't like levels, since they segregate the population.
Anyway, thats a bit off topic :)


Ryan_001:
Im all for what you propose (I like especially your idea for blacksmithing). Just be aware of the boredom factor. The most fun mini-game will become boring if repeated thousands of times, as is required in all MMO's I have played so far.

As said above, I would use the mini-game at only strategic times (like when crafting at the limit of your skill or when crafting high quality/magic items).
Quote:CalvinI am only polite because I don't know enough foul languageQuote:Original post by superpigI think the reason your rating has dropped so much, Mercenarey, is that you come across as an arrogant asshole.
The point I was trying to make is that everybody that's a long-term player will have one anyway and thus, be self sufficient.

Look at Rose online.

Everybody over level 50 has an Alt. Dealer that they AFK all night.
It's pointlessly annoying.

Just throw in some crafting mini-games or something that will frustrate unskilled players and let the people with the time and the patience make a profit instead of the people with the deepest pockets to begin with.
Or just remove auto-trading systems?
Dulce non decorum est.

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