Windows vs. Ubuntu

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65 comments, last by ranakor 14 years, 6 months ago
Quote:Original post by Eskapade
However, GUIs in general are no good for coding tasks in my opinion. Daily example: replace some variable name. vim: :%s:foo:bar, done. Any GUI: Edit -> Replace or some key combo, click search field, enter foo, click replace field, enter bar, press replace all (any GUI I've seen will just replace one using return). Most GUIs also don't support Regex, which is a huge time saver when editing code. It does have a certain learning curve to use these tools efficiently, but you'll use them so often and save so much time every time you use them that it's absolutely worth it.


1) VS08 supports RegEx in it find and replace boxes. It's not enabled by default but it does have them
2) when renaming variables I happen to like a degree of control rather than a blind 'replace all'. Enter refactoring tools (built in for C#, VAX for C++);
(in the case of VAX for a C++ project as I have one open)
- right click on variable name
- navigate menu quickly to 'rename'
- window pops up showing me what is going to be changed with option to untick as required (and include comments/strings)
- change string and hit enter to have it change as required

If needs be you can do this via the keyboard;
- navigate cursor to variable in question
- hit context menu button
- use arrow keys to get to menu item
- window pops up etc

Maybe GUIs in general don't support these things, but then I have to ask why you aren't using the best of the breed for your tasks? *shrugs*

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Quote:Original post by phantom
Quote:I find Visual Studio's attempts to pack everything into the same window appalling: I have a 1920x1080 monitor, for Pete's sake - why would I want to squeeze the debugger into a tab?
This confuses me greatly, mostly because it doesn't 'squeeze the debugger into a tab'. Depending on how you arrange things you can be viewing;
- source code
- variables (local, automatic)
- call stack
- output and each of these can be place into a tab and docked around the window area.
My one complaint about VS, GUI wise, is the lack of tear-off windows but thats fixed in VS2010 so that issue has gone.
Maybe I just need to dig deeper into the configuration, or maybe the express version is behind the times, but I haven't figured out any way to split the build log and debugger out into their own top-level windows (note that maximising the main window and using sub-windows doesn't cut it - I need to interleave them with other applications).

I also seem to have a lot of trouble retrieving the contents of stdout and stderr. While I appreciate that text-based output should go to files in a graphical environment, the lack of a suitable equivalent to 'tail -F' makes that a bit of a pain...
Quote:
Quote:My linux box reads FAT, NTFS, NFS, SMB, AFP, HFS+ and of course, ext*. The Mac reads most of these, and FUSE can be added (for free) to handle the rest.
I can count, on no fingers, the number of times I've needed to access a file system windows doesn't support out of the box in my 11 years of having my own PC... guess the number [grin]
My guess would be that you are working in a Windows shop. I am working in an academic environment, littered with Mac and linux (including both of the above as servers). Interoperability is key, and while the Windows boxes do just fine for regular desktop use, they just won't do for the administration tasks.

Tristam MacDonald. Ex-BigTech Software Engineer. Future farmer. [https://trist.am]

Quote:Original post by phantom
Quote:Original post by swiftcoder
The other aspect is font rendering. Why on Earth can't Windows or Linux allow you to turn the anti-aliasing on fonts up to a Mac-like level?


Purely subjective; there are those who prefer the Mac way of rendering fonts and there are those who think its the devils rendering and makes their eyes bleed.
This is why multiple OSes on the market are such a great thing. You Mac guys can have your blindingly hideous font rendering, and we Windows guys can have our splintered and incohesive platform.
SlimDX | Ventspace Blog | Twitter | Diverse teams make better games. I am currently hiring capable C++ engine developers in Baltimore, MD.
Quote:Original post by swiftcoder
Quote:
Quote:My linux box reads FAT, NTFS, NFS, SMB, AFP, HFS+ and of course, ext*. The Mac reads most of these, and FUSE can be added (for free) to handle the rest.
I can count, on no fingers, the number of times I've needed to access a file system windows doesn't support out of the box in my 11 years of having my own PC... guess the number [grin]
My guess would be that you are working in a Windows shop. I am working in an academic environment, littered with Mac and linux (including both of the above as servers). Interoperability is key, and while the Windows boxes do just fine for regular desktop use, they just won't do for the administration tasks.


But when you're talking over the network file systems become irrelevant. It's just a case of making sure you have the correct services and options enabled on both ends. Like Samba on Linux for instance.. Unless you have to physically pull out and connect one of these hard disks to your windows box I can't see where the problem is.
Quote:Original post by phantom
Quote:Original post by Eskapade
However, GUIs in general are no good for coding tasks in my opinion. Daily example: replace some variable name. vim: :%s:foo:bar, done. Any GUI: Edit -> Replace or some key combo, click search field, enter foo, click replace field, enter bar, press replace all (any GUI I've seen will just replace one using return). Most GUIs also don't support Regex, which is a huge time saver when editing code. It does have a certain learning curve to use these tools efficiently, but you'll use them so often and save so much time every time you use them that it's absolutely worth it.


1) VS08 supports RegEx in it find and replace boxes. It's not enabled by default but it does have them
2) when renaming variables I happen to like a degree of control rather than a blind 'replace all'. Enter refactoring tools (built in for C#, VAX for C++);
(in the case of VAX for a C++ project as I have one open)
- right click on variable name
- navigate menu quickly to 'rename'
- window pops up showing me what is going to be changed with option to untick as required (and include comments/strings)
- change string and hit enter to have it change as required

If needs be you can do this via the keyboard;
- navigate cursor to variable in question
- hit context menu button
- use arrow keys to get to menu item
- window pops up etc

Maybe GUIs in general don't support these things, but then I have to ask why you aren't using the best of the breed for your tasks? *shrugs*


Ctrl-H

That's all I'll say about that one. Anyone who knows their VS shortcuts can appreciate what I am talking about [smile]

(It's search/replace btw)
Quote:Original post by Darragh
But when you're talking over the network file systems become irrelevant. It's just a case of making sure you have the correct services and options enabled on both ends. Like Samba on Linux for instance.. Unless you have to physically pull out and connect one of these hard disks to your windows box I can't see where the problem is.
I am using unix/mac terminology, where a 'filesystem' is anything that supports a directory structure. That includes all the network filesystems: SMB, NFS, AFP, etc. which are what I am referring to.

Sure, we can run everything over lowest-common-denominator SMB, but the performance is often a problem, and a lot of services (such as network boot) run much better over NFS.

Tristam MacDonald. Ex-BigTech Software Engineer. Future farmer. [https://trist.am]

KUbuntu 3 on Linux looks promising for desktop. Yet, IMHO, since WinXP/2000, Windows has proven to be an overall better platform for almost everything, except maybe, pleasing the Linux fans of course.

And I've been a Linux user for over 12+ years.
[size="2"]I like the Walrus best.
Quote:Original post by swiftcoder
Sure, we can run everything over lowest-common-denominator SMB, but the performance is often a problem, and a lot of services (such as network boot) run much better over NFS.
Dude, I think NFS might be one of the few things on this planet that is as embarassingly unreliable as SMB.
SlimDX | Ventspace Blog | Twitter | Diverse teams make better games. I am currently hiring capable C++ engine developers in Baltimore, MD.
Quote:Original post by swiftcoder
Quote:Original post by phantom
Quote:I find Visual Studio's attempts to pack everything into the same window appalling: I have a 1920x1080 monitor, for Pete's sake - why would I want to squeeze the debugger into a tab?
This confuses me greatly, mostly because it doesn't 'squeeze the debugger into a tab'. Depending on how you arrange things you can be viewing;
- source code
- variables (local, automatic)
- call stack
- output and each of these can be place into a tab and docked around the window area.
My one complaint about VS, GUI wise, is the lack of tear-off windows but thats fixed in VS2010 so that issue has gone.
Maybe I just need to dig deeper into the configuration, or maybe the express version is behind the times, but I haven't figured out any way to split the build log and debugger out into their own top-level windows (note that maximising the main window and using sub-windows doesn't cut it - I need to interleave them with other applications).


hmmm, we might be talking slightly at cross purposes; all the smaller 'tabs' or dockable windows can be grabbed and pulled free of the app however they are still slaved to the main application's focus/level.

So, while I can grab the 'call stack' window and drag it free of the main VS08 window and onto my 2nd monitor if I min. VS then it goes away as well. I've never found this a hinderance however, but that might be down to having two displays so I can always punt something from one to the other if I need to see more *shrugs*

Quote:
I also seem to have a lot of trouble retrieving the contents of stdout and stderr. While I appreciate that text-based output should go to files in a graphical environment, the lack of a suitable equivalent to 'tail -F' makes that a bit of a pain...


I would also prefer it if std::err at least got shoved to the debug output window when debugging, but such is life I guess.
Quote:Original post by owl
IMHO, since WinXP/2000, Windows has proven to be an overall better platform for almost everything, except maybe, pleasing the Linux fans of course. And I've been a Linux user for over 12+ years.
Sadly, I am in agreement with you. Despite loving them, I know Macs are overpriced, lacking in games, and have Apple screwing backwards-compatibility every five minutes...

I love the idea of linux, but using it on regular basis always reinforces my feeling that programmers should not design user interfaces or installation processes - there are rvalid easons why the big corporations employ requirements specialists and artists to design GUIs, develop stringent usability guidelines to ensure uniform look and feel, etc.

Windows on the other hand, I find is a perfectly usable system. It may not suit my ideas in a lot of areas, but it works, is at least reasonably user friendly, and has *a lot* of software available to remedy the shortcomings.

Tristam MacDonald. Ex-BigTech Software Engineer. Future farmer. [https://trist.am]

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