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The Box

Started by irreversible Feb 22, 2011 at 4:27 AM 25 replies 5.7k views
Original Post
irreversible
irreversible
The title made you look, didn't it? Well, that was the idea (or maybe it wasn't - I'm not sure), because that's precisely what tickled my fancy when I first heard of it (2009). I had been wary of the film ever since I took a look at some of the reviews on IMDb; moreover, a few of my friends who had seen the film, had made me even more wary by assuring me that the movie is - for better or for worse - well worth its more than mediocre 5.8 mark as indicated by popular vote. And then I watched the film.

Is it just me or are people nowadays too daft to get moral conundrums guised as sci-fi ? Or am I strangely one of the few people alive who is old enough to actually remember when adding emotional ambiguity and that sensation of the chill you get when you feel like someone's just walked over your grave gives you when you finish watching a film and find yourself going "yes, yes, that's fine... buuuuuuut". And then you come up with a ton of questions which, more often than not, boil down to analyzing yourself rather than focusing on the (often necessitated) shortcomings of the story itself? Am I one of the few remaining of the solid old school sci-fi clan who likes stories like Ray Bradbury's The Veldt or Jack McDevitt's Henry James, This One's For You or, heck, even Kafka's Metamorphosis?

Has subtlety become scary or have people such as myself lost our edge and become too simple for today's expectations? I mean - it can't be that bad, can it? After all it's not that big of a step from being 29 to liking Justin Bieber. Why is it, apparently, not the same in reverse? On second thought. Bieber gave me herpes simply by looking at a picture of him once.

Going back to the film itself, The Box deliveres in so many respects, despite falling short in sheer filmmaking craft, that I can't even tell where to start addressing such a measly grade. I think a good starting point would be to dissect the potential target audience and run the traditional "IMDb's rating system is grossly biased" protocol over it, quoting apparent cinematic feats such as the The Lord Of The Rings (2001) films or even The Shawshank Redemption (1994) as the norm (even though I'm quite literally having serious trouble placing the latter two even remotely in the same ballpark while considering Shawshank a grossly overrated movie - which is to say that I don't even know where to start placing the LOTR films; far side of the Moon, maybe?). Fair enough, The Box is no Contact (1997). But it does remind me of a budget-enabled Primer (2004), Cube (1997) or even this thing (I'm not implying The Box is 100 minutes too long - it's not; it's no more than 15-20 minutes too long and actually makes good use of its slow Stepford Wives'y (1975) pacing).

I've had a whopping hour or two to let the juices settle after finishing watching the film, but I can tell right now at first glace I picked up at least three major moral levels, each of which had a pretty nicely honed proper conclusion (succumbing to necessity/temptation; the implication that if more than half of the people in the world open the box, humanity will have failed the test (I especially loved this one); and a rather catchy catch-22). That's three more (sometimes four more) than most films have when watched with more pot in your system than Heidegger ever had. There was some weaker and less important stuff as well, as well as some completely unnecessary stuff. But it was never outright boring (the slow pace did tend to drag in the middle, though - especially during the party scenes). It was also incomparably better than than the recent betwetter Skyline (2010) and, I would argue, had more moral complexity and depth than the very much underrated Monsters (2010). Nevertheless, the 5.8 rating leaves me to either question the sanity of most everyone around me or that of myself (and as much as I would enjoy to question everyone else's sanity, I will refrain from doing that (for now)).

Did you see the film? Did you like it? Why didn't you?
Hodgman
Hodgman

Is it just me or are people nowadays too daft to get moral conundrums guised as sci-fi ? Or am I strangely one of the few people alive who is old enough to actually remember when adding emotional ambiguity and that sensation of the chill you get when you feel like someone's just walked over your grave gives you when you finish watching a film and find yourself going "yes, yes, that's fine... buuuuuuut". And then you come up with a ton of questions which, more often than not, boil down to analyzing yourself rather than focusing on the (often necessitated) shortcomings of the story itself? Am I one of the few remaining of the solid old school sci-fi clan who likes stories like Ray Bradbury's The Veldt or Jack McDevitt's Henry James, This One's For You or, heck, even Kafka's Metamorphosis?
I liked it exactly because it's real sci-fi, in the classic sense of the word (not the modern "sci fi is teh space ship showhs!!" sense of the word).

I didn't even know it was sci-fi when I sat down to watch it - the review I saw made it out to be a boring emotional drama with a thin moral question. I was quite surprised and refreshed to find myself viewing the old-school sci-fi genre of using implausible technology in order to ask philosophical questions. As a classic sci-fi reader, I thought it was brilliant - 4/5 stars.

[edit]Dug up one of the reviews I saw when it came out - interesting to see it's polarising effect works on critics as well as the public:
D: I think he's tried to channel that very intriguing story of this moral decision at its core, into his own particularly idiosyncratic vision of - I do not know what really...
M: But, excuse me, in this it is sort of explained stupidly.
D: No. No. No. Not stupidly. No, not stupidly.
M: Yes. No, the gods of lightning take over the world.
D: It's not...
M: Please.
D: Obviously you did not get onto the wavelength. But, look, I think a lot of people would be really intrigued by this film.
M: ... but the whole does not work. It just...
D: Well, it worked for me. I found it very impressive.
M: And, ultimately, I thought it was a cruel film. So I am giving it two stars.
D: I am giving it four.[/quote]
nilkn
nilkn
The premise is okay and the human representative of the aliens was a nice homage (intentional or not) to the Gman (though the Gman is a more effective and compelling character). Beyond that the movie seemed to fail in every respect.

Example:


The ethical test designed by the aliens is extremely simplistic, shallow, and biased beyond reason against humanity. Witness the timing of the offer: the family was in dire financial need and the father had just been denied his dream job as an astronaut. Beyond that, it's pretty obvious that when they push the button they aren't totally convinced the offer is legitimate. When they realize the offer is legitimate, they immediately try to undo the action. But the aliens completely ignore this. Their "moral test" fails in essentially every way it could fail.

It makes no sense for Cameron Diaz's character to die simultaneously with the pushing of the button by the next family because the next family could have chosen not to press the button. The film thereby suggests they didn't have free will, which contradicts the entire idea of the movie.

way2lazy2care
way2lazy2care

[edit]Dug up one of the reviews I saw when it came out - interesting to see it's polarising effect works on critics as well as the public:
D: I think he's tried to channel that very intriguing story of this moral decision at its core, into his own particularly idiosyncratic vision of - I do not know what really...
M: But, excuse me, in this it is sort of explained stupidly.
D: No. No. No. Not stupidly. No, not stupidly.
M: Yes. No, the gods of lightning take over the world.
D: It's not...
M: Please.
D: Obviously you did not get onto the wavelength. But, look, I think a lot of people would be really intrigued by this film.
M: ... but the whole does not work. It just...
D: Well, it worked for me. I found it very impressive.
M: And, ultimately, I thought it was a cruel film. So I am giving it two stars.
D: I am giving it four.

[/quote]

I'd have to agree with the negative reviewer. It had solid potential, but it was executed poorly imo. I have nothing against the concept or the general story, but it was just executed really poorly. Parts of the story were entirely unnecessary and the acting was bad.

I do not like movies based on whether or not they are a cool idea that fits my preconceived notions of what a good movie should be; If that were the case I might have liked the happening. I do, however, like movies because they are good. Because of this, thankfully, I despise the happening and found The Box to be lame.

And on Sci-fi. There is no "classic sense of the word" there has always been hardand soft sci fi. They are different, but neither predates the other significantly or is any cheaper than the other when executed correctly.
Antheus
Antheus

(I'm not implying The Box is 100 minutes too long


I haven't seen it, but it probably is.

I've probably also seen all the movies that will come out this year, given that Hollywood no longer produces anything original, just watered down remakes of stuff from anywhere between 10-30 years ago.
irreversible
irreversible
Antheus - I don't think The Box is a remake in Hollywood terms (even though it's been made as a The Twilight Zone episode in the past). It's an old story and it literally shows, but I haven't been able to find an original like The Last Man On Earth or Omega Man is to I Am Legend (ironically, also from Matheson). However, the fact that you can compress it into 10 minutes on screen doesn't mean you can't expand it to 10 hours. Can't find the short parody, but here's a thread that does the same in the first post. I couldn't really not agree that the LOTR trilogy is 11 hours too long. Because it is. But did it merit the 300M expenses? You decide.


I've seen most of the stuff coming out of Hollywood as well; I've also seen much of the stuff Hollywood used to produce over the prior 100 years (including some of the funkiest sci-fi/horror) and I can say with confidence The Box ain't Hollywood - it's considerably bolder. Aeon Flux is Hollywood. Ultraviolet is Hollywood. By definition The Box is as well (Warner Bros, to be exact). But it's a different breed.

PS - sorry, I didn't finish watching your link yet (too unsober...). Nice find, though - I'm planning to watch it ASAP.

I'm not going to buff up the argument that The Box is underrated or whatnot - its rating is what it is and that's what it's boiled down to. However, I will argue with nilkn's assertion that there's no temporal quality to science fiction. Also, please note that you've omitted the predominant trend today, which is the "sci-fi-for-the-sake-of-sci-fi" (which is neither hard nor soft) trend, and as much as I regret to admit, Alien was the movie that took the 50s horror craze and turned it into a hardcore sheer action sci-fi craze, which has ultimately been diluted down to the abovementioned Skyline, Cargo and Pandorum (the last of which I happen to respect a lot, but for entirely different reasons). The style that The Box portrays is old school sci-fi and it's literally become a niche nowadays (I mentioned Monsters as the latest prime example above) - I'm not sure if you're above this, don't acknowledge this or simply haven't read enough sci-fi to appreciate it (either way I don't mean to offend). In addition to Monsters, Primer (also mentioned above) is another good example. Go back 30 years and about 50% of the original Twilight Zone episodes are prime examples or classic sci-fi. Yet, all of these titles are underdogs. Yes The Box soft sci-fi, but the classification I understand from hodgman is different - it's the to-the-point no-nonsense and please-take-your-head-out-of-your-ass-and-take-a-fricking-leap-of-faith kind of sci-fi that defies contemporary expectation (whatever that really is).

To heat up the pot a bit and gain some perspective, please list 5-10 of your favourite sci-fi films/stories when you reply.
dpadam450
dpadam450
Can I give the movie a 0? Worst film ever, what exactly was the point of the plot? The production was terrible, story sucked and was slow moving. There was no real action/exciting moment. I remember some part where the dude steps in some water and is upside down or something. So dumb.
NBA2K, Madden, Maneater, Killing Floor, Sims 
freeworld
freeworld

It makes no sense for Cameron Diaz's character to die simultaneously with the pushing of the button by the next family because the next family could have chosen not to press the button. The film thereby suggests they didn't have free will, which contradicts the entire idea of the movie.


I haven't seen the movie since it first came out but I'm pretty sure the pushing of the button doesn't kill the previous wife. The timing of the two events is just to make that families choice that much more dramatic. Also him saying that pushing the button will kill someone is more of an ominous suggestion, rather than it being fact. She didn't have to die in the end it was her free will to save their son from being blind for the rest of his life, or let him be blind.

It's like they came down and said I can fix your problems, but you're going to have to sacrifice something, I'm just not going to tell you want. And when they said yes, he said wrong, and destroyed they're lives. He then offers the exact same offer, this time he's nice and tells them the outcome.


Can I give the movie a 0? Worst film ever, what exactly was the point of the plot? The production was terrible, story sucked and was slow moving. There was no real action/exciting moment. I remember some part where the dude steps in some water and is upside down or something. So dumb.


it's not an action movie that's why.
way2lazy2care
way2lazy2care

it's not an action movie that's why.


There are plenty of non-action movies that don't have the same problem.
irreversible
irreversible
w2l2c - arguments like that are precisely why I asked you to list 5-10 of your favourite sci-fi films - to see what standards you judge films by. because I don't think the treatment you're giving this one is a completely meditated one.
Hodgman
Hodgman

And on Sci-fi. There is no "classic sense of the word" there has always been hardand soft sci fi. They are different, but neither predates the other significantly or is any cheaper than the other when executed correctly.
The modern/classic difference that I mentioned isn't the same as hard vs soft sci-fi. It's more along the lines of narrowly classifying sci-fi as just the space-opera sub-genre (i.e. in the modern sense of the word, if your show is set on a space-ship, then you're free to call it "sci-fi", regardless of how well it actually fits into the sci-fi genre).
Compare modern Stargate episodes where the plot revolves around action, adventure and interpersonal dramas, with old star-trek episodes that actually raise philosophical questions...
way2lazy2care
way2lazy2care

w2l2c - arguments like that are precisely why I asked you to list 5-10 of your favourite sci-fi films - to see what standards you judge films by. because I don't think the treatment you're giving this one is a completely meditated one.



Not in any particular order, and I might replace 1 or 2 if I forgot some others.
1. Event Horizon
2. Serenity (firefly in general)
3. Star wars 4-6
4. Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind
5. batteries not included (nostalgia mostly)
6. Pitch black
7. District 9
8. Aliens 1-3
9. Equilibrium
10. Gattaca

probably some more I can't think of like I said.
freeworld
freeworld

[quote name='freeworld' timestamp='1298414430' post='4777736']
it's not an action movie that's why.


There are plenty of non-action movies that don't have the same problem.
[/quote]

well your name already makes me think you're one of those people that would easily watch animal porn as long as there are explosion.... not saying you watch animal porn just making it dramatic.


[quote name='irreversible' timestamp='1298417278' post='4777752']
w2l2c - arguments like that are precisely why I asked you to list 5-10 of your favourite sci-fi films - to see what standards you judge films by. because I don't think the treatment you're giving this one is a completely meditated one.



Not in any particular order, and I might replace 1 or 2 if I forgot some others.
1. Event Horizon
2. Serenity (firefly in general)
3. Star wars 4-6
4. Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind
5. batteries not included (nostalgia mostly)
6. Pitch black
7. District 9
8. Aliens 1-3
9. Equilibrium
10. Gattaca

probably some more I can't think of like I said.
[/quote]

but atleast you put event horizon at the top of your list. that is one hell of a movie.

if were going to argue genres, sci-fi should be considered a theme more than a genre, it really does nothing to prepare you for how the story will play out. It basically just give away the types of things that will be in the movie. Sci-fi can be anything from steam punk to artsy fartsy, aslong as it has; outer space, extraterrestrials, future technology or simply takes place far into the future. Basically I'm just trying to say your opinion is extremely bias'd.
Rixter
Rixter


Not in any particular order, and I might replace 1 or 2 if I forgot some others.
1. Event Horizon
2. Serenity (firefly in general)
3. Star wars 4-6
4. Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind
5. batteries not included (nostalgia mostly)
6. Pitch black
7. District 9
8. Aliens 1-3
9. Equilibrium
10. Gattaca

probably some more I can't think of like I said.


Watch Sunshine, then add it to your list. Beautiful movie in so many ways (watch on Blu-ray, if you can) Realize it's a science fiction that's heavy on the fiction, but not wasting effort trying to make the situation believable is part of what makes it so great.

I haven't seen The Box, so this is all I can contribute to this thread. And after reading this thread I know how it ends so I guess I don't need to watch it either, which is just as well since I knew about the Twilight Zone as well.
way2lazy2care
way2lazy2care

[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1298426492' post='4777804']
Not in any particular order, and I might replace 1 or 2 if I forgot some others.
1. Event Horizon
2. Serenity (firefly in general)
3. Star wars 4-6
4. Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind
5. batteries not included (nostalgia mostly)
6. Pitch black
7. District 9
8. Aliens 1-3
9. Equilibrium
10. Gattaca

probably some more I can't think of like I said.


Watch Sunshine, then add it to your list. Beautiful movie in so many ways (watch on Blu-ray, if you can) Realize it's a science fiction that's heavy on the fiction, but not wasting effort trying to make the situation believable is part of what makes it so great.

I haven't seen The Box, so this is all I can contribute to this thread. And after reading this thread I know how it ends so I guess I don't need to watch it either, which is just as well since I knew about the Twilight Zone as well.
[/quote]

I've seen sunshine. One of the ones that I just didn't remember. Very event horizony feeling. Liked it, but it just reminded me of event horizon, which made it feel less good than it was. Still thought it was a solid movie.
way2lazy2care
way2lazy2care

well your name already makes me think you're one of those people that would easily watch animal porn as long as there are explosion.... not saying you watch animal porn just making it dramatic.

I don't see what's wrong about liking a good action movie. I'll tell you straight up I thought 500 days of summer was one of the best movies released recently, but that doesn't mean I can't watch the losers or the expendables or the transporter series and have a great time doing so.

edit: a good example is serenity. Great character depth, pretty unique and intriguing world with a lot of interesting possibilities, witty, and on top of that it has action elements. Does the action take away from any of the other stuff? I'd say no. It's not mindless action.

double edit: in fact, a lot of my favorite episodes of firefly are the least action filled. Out of Gas and objects in space namely.
nilkn
nilkn

[quote name='nilkn' timestamp='1298368890' post='4777466']
It makes no sense for Cameron Diaz's character to die simultaneously with the pushing of the button by the next family because the next family could have chosen not to press the button. The film thereby suggests they didn't have free will, which contradicts the entire idea of the movie.


I haven't seen the movie since it first came out but I'm pretty sure the pushing of the button doesn't kill the previous wife. The timing of the two events is just to make that families choice that much more dramatic. Also him saying that pushing the button will kill someone is more of an ominous suggestion, rather than it being fact. She didn't have to die in the end it was her free will to save their son from being blind for the rest of his life, or let him be blind.


[/quote]

Well, I'll concede that the timing of the two events could have been a (rather misleading) choice on the director's part to (almost artificially) increase tension at the expense of (much needed) clarity. But I thought the movie was fairly explicit that if you push the button then you cause the previous person who pushed the button to die (modulo some unexplained starting conditions for the experiment). Any other interpretation definitely seems to be stretching it a little too far for what the movie showed and said.

Actually the only compelling interpretation I've been able to come up with is that the second half of the movie is supposed to be a depiction of hell--i.e., the husband did *not* choose the correct water pillar. (And that water pillar scene is an example of something that probably just pissed a lot of people off rather than intriguing them.)
FableFox
FableFox
Oh yeah, Sunshine. I really like the 'Avenue of Hope' music. The story itself is great.
Hodgman
Hodgman

if were going to argue genres, sci-fi should be considered a theme more than a genre, it really does nothing to prepare you for how the story will play out. It basically just give away the types of things that will be in the movie. Sci-fi can be anything from steam punk to artsy fartsy, aslong as it has; outer space, extraterrestrials, future technology or simply takes place far into the future. Basically I'm just trying to say your opinion is extremely bias'd.
That's not even self-consistent -- artsy fartsy steam punk doesn't meet any of your requirements.

What makes something fit in the genre is whether or not it deals with the (real or imagined) influence of (real or imagined) technology on individuals or societies -- and that does relate to how the story will play out.

If it simply has technology, but doesn't focus on the human impact of that technology, then it's not sci-fi, no matter how many alien species or space armadas are present.
way2lazy2care
way2lazy2care
(And that water pillar scene is an example of something that probably just pissed a lot of people off rather than intriguing them.)

yes.

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