How much time do you spend on game design?

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15 comments, last by meeshoo 13 years ago

Most people on this forum would disagree with me, because their situation is different. If you are a designer in a 6 people team and you spend a year designing the game that is produced with 1 year you only used 20% time of the team. But if you are a lone guy doing both design and coding and you spend 6 months on designing a 1 year game then you used up 50% of resources on design. That's unacceptable amount.

3 months is awfully long for a hobbist who also needs to spend the time later on the coding and making gfx assets.

In short, if your design will be used by a team of expensive programmers later, go all the way, any amount spent on design will most likely pay off. But if you doing it all alone then the time used up on the design is simply eating up the resources that you could use on the implementation instead.


Well, I am alone but I do not plan to do all the things myself. I will limit to game design, programming and a small part of the graphics. I plan to outsource the rest, including music, sound and the most important graphic assets. The game is quite simple in terms of mechanics, basically a complete prototype would represent 90% of the game done in terms of programming. The bulk of the work is made of level design and graphic assets, and I plan to do the level design somewhat in parallel with the creation of the assets.
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In my years of designing as a hobbyist working on board game projects, tcg and ccg and small wwII strategy table top games, I notice that its alright to take as long as you need to work out the mechanics of your projects thoroughly then to rush through a project to find out that the game your worked on doesn't play or doesn't flow like you had hoped for.

I am still working on my survival horror board game and first stcg (strategy trading card game) since 1999. Those are two of my biggest projects.
The board game to computer game idea prior to my suvival horror board game took me two full years to draw out a top view fantasy action adventure board game. from 1992 to 1994. It started out as a large maze but decided to work on it as a dnd similar type game. The map is 13 1/2 feet in length and 4 1/2 feet wide. The map also consists of two sections.

Yes way to long for these projects. But I like to have the adventure in creating the storylines and mechanics as I go. Thats the whole idea of creating these game projects right?
At one time I would like to have seen these projects on store shelves but with one person its an enormous task but its okay. Just going through the paces.
Design should always be iterative; if you're making a game design upfront and not revising it as you go, you're doing it wrong.
"I will personally burn everything I've made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames."
~ Gabe
"I don't mean to rush you but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"
~ Cavil, BSG.
"If it's really important to you that other people follow your True Brace Style, it just indicates you're inexperienced. Go find something productive to do."
[size=2]~ Bregma

"Well, you're not alone.


There's a club for people like that. It's called Everybody and we meet at the bar[size=2].

"

[size=2]~

[size=1]Antheus

Most people on this forum would disagree with me, because their situation is different. If you are a designer in a 6 people team and you spend a year designing the game that is produced with 1 year you only used 20% time of the team. But if you are a lone guy doing both design and coding and you spend 6 months on designing a 1 year game then you used up 50% of resources on design. That's unacceptable amount.

3 months is awfully long for a hobbist who also needs to spend the time later on the coding and making gfx assets.

In short, if your design will be used by a team of expensive programmers later, go all the way, any amount spent on design will most likely pay off. But if you doing it all alone then the time used up on the design is simply eating up the resources that you could use on the implementation instead.


Yes, but without a good design implementation won't work, and result in even more wasted time.

The whole reason you take time to design games is because it's cheaper to design than it is to implement, at every stage of the development process. It doesn't matter if you're solo or with a group of 50 dudes, you will save time if you work out design issues before implementation.

However! Really, honestly, I cannot stress enough that monolothic design is a bad idea. You don't need to spend a year with dwarven design smiths hand forging the legendary Design Document of Narsil deep in their gilded halls before you think about touching code. Rather, design works well if it is intermingled with the development process. This is actually true for projects of virtually any size, big and small. Even a small game with less moving parts can benefit from not designing the entire thing up front, but rather designing as you go.

When I was in college, I came up with a method for making games that works like this. I'll use the game Sanctum as an example (new FPSTD, First Person Shoot Tower-Defense that came out like a week ago).

1) Conceptualize. Come up with the idea for the game. In this case, it's simply, "Make a tower defense game where you also control an individual ala a first person shooter that fights creep waves along with towers you build, ala a standard tower defense game."
2) Rough design: Come up with a framework design for the game. This encompasses, more or less, the overall mechanics of the game and points out some questions that will crop up in the future. Perspective will be first person, you'll have a couple guns you can switch between (should they have ammo or powerups?). You will fight enemies with standard FPS mechanics (should there be health?). You can build towers to defend against mindless creeps that will suicide run into your base (should I allow mazing or gauntlet style construction? What will be build interface be? Should I implement a top-down view for building?)
3) Identify the core of the game: Most games have a core, or a few cores, that make up the most important mechanics of the game. Likely candidates for core mechanics are actions that players will be performing often, or a mechanic that many other mechanics depend upon. It is very key to identify core mechanics and refine them well; if they suck your game will suck. If your secondary mechanics suck, then your game can still be good with a couple problems that detract from, but do not ruin, the experience. In Sanctum, the core mechanic is the interplay between first person shooter and tower defense, being able to maneuver through your towers and fight alongside them to kill the enemy.
4) Refine and test the core mechanic: Here's where you'll spend a lot of time in the design phase. Try to start off with a simple, but complete, slice of your core mechanic and test the shit out of it. Make prototypes, digital or paper. Make them rough and fast, but good enough to thoroughly test the mechanic. In this case, I'd fire up the UDK and code a rough turret I can place down, just a box that shoots anything hostile near it. Then I'd spawn a bunch of simple bots that run toward me, or even simpler, get some friends to take place of the bots and try to navigate through a turret maze toward me. This should give me an idea whether or not this idea is a dud. It also lets me identify potential problems down the way (moving around turrets is awkward, it's much easier to fight while standing on a turret, my guns seem way more useful than the turrets, etc). Mostly, I'm not worried about exact numbers at this stage, but rather the idea behind specific mechanics. Exact numbers are polish, and should be left for later.
5) Take (or scrap, nothing ever wrong with scrapping) the prototype and build it out into an actual mechanic.
6) Identify the next-most-important design aspect of the game and repeat.

To assist with this, I use a development organization style I call the tier system. I divide up my design into tiers of importance, the lower ones being core mechanics, the higher ones being less important. This helps me decide what to focus on next.

Tier 0:
Turret maze prototype. The ENTIRE game hinges on this working.

Tier 1:
Gun prototypes (different types of guns)
Turret prototypes (different types of turrets)
Enemy prototypes (different types of enemies)

Tier 2:
Construction interface prototype

Tier 3:
Refine enemy types
Refine turret prototypes
Refine enemy prototypes

Tier 4:
Refine player movement
Refine construction interface

Tier 5:
Overall polish

I also, usually, make a tier list for the software engineering side for each task in the design tier list that helps determine how to implement it.

This is a rough guideline to help me make a roadmap of my iterative design->development process. At every tier, I re-evaluate the entire design to see how the pieces are fitting together and redesign mechanics that I feel are becoming clunky. For instance, maybe implementing very fast enemies was really cool, but exposed that it's too hard for the player to move around the maze efficiently to fight them. Solution? Let the player build teleporters at strategic points along the map. This lets you fix problems at the crop up, and identify what changes caused the problem in the first place.
I have seen Sanctum's trailer, nice game you have there. I'm fed up with TD games myself, but this seems to be an interesting take on the subject.

About incremental design, I agree it is one of the best ways to work on design and game development for that matter. The only risk here is to make too many iterations with the wrong core mechanics, and then go back and start from scratch, but if you identify your core mechanics early in the process and be sure that is what you want in your game, the rest is best to be added in various iterations. Each iteration should both contain improvements to the existing stuff that was nailed down in a previous iteration and also new stuff that is added for testing.

I am currently working on another (6th?) simple prototype for testing my core mechanics and also getting more used with Unity, as I found out this is the most important side effect from prototyping with a new technology: you get to learn a few tricks way before starting to work on the actual game.

I have seen Sanctum's trailer, nice game you have there. I'm fed up with TD games myself, but this seems to be an interesting take on the subject.

About incremental design, I agree it is one of the best ways to work on design and game development for that matter. The only risk here is to make too many iterations with the wrong core mechanics, and then go back and start from scratch, but if you identify your core mechanics early in the process and be sure that is what you want in your game, the rest is best to be added in various iterations. Each iteration should both contain improvements to the existing stuff that was nailed down in a previous iteration and also new stuff that is added for testing.

I am currently working on another (6th?) simple prototype for testing my core mechanics and also getting more used with Unity, as I found out this is the most important side effect from prototyping with a new technology: you get to learn a few tricks way before starting to work on the actual game.


Well, I didn't make Sanctum (I wish!), I was just using it as an example of how I would work through the development process if I'd made Sanctum.

Oh, another point. Unity's a great tool to make prototypes with! Even if you were making a game with straight up C++ and DirectX/OpenGL, using Unity to develop prototypes would be super worth it simply because you can churn out a working prototype with it about a million times faster than using something heavy weight.

Well, I didn't make Sanctum (I wish!), I was just using it as an example of how I would work through the development process if I'd made Sanctum.


Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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