We don't need to scrape washout NFL/NBA players. There's plenty of solid rugby talent in USA rugby.

I just saw this this morning. I'm not a big 7's fan but I thought this was interesting. Miles Craigwell was going to be a bench-warmer for the dolphins and in less than a year he's starting for the USA team. I'm interested to see him play to see how he does. I think it will quiet a lot of the discussions about NFL fitness and the time it takes to learn Rugby skills. FYI he got a 21.4 on the beep test, which I'm pretty sure destroys the previous highest score (never heard of anyone doing over 19). Would be neat to see if he starts a trend for others in the NFL to follow, we might have an all-star 7s team.

[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313180091' post='4848398']
We don't need to scrape washout NFL/NBA players. There's plenty of solid rugby talent in USA rugby.

I just saw this this morning. I'm not a big 7's fan but I thought this was interesting. Miles Craigwell was going to be a bench-warmer for the dolphins and in less than a year he's starting for the USA team. I'm interested to see him play to see how he does. I think it will quiet a lot of the discussions about NFL fitness and the time it takes to learn Rugby skills. FYI he got a 21.4 on the beep test, which I'm pretty sure destroys the previous highest score (never heard of anyone doing over 19). Would be neat to see if he starts a trend for others in the NFL to follow, we might have an all-star 7s team.
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7s isn't that accurate to how you'd play in a union game though. 7 minute halves with mostly break away runs is right up an NFL player's alley. NFL players are tremendously tuned towards short periods of high activity, but tend to be worse at pacing themselves and lasting for longer periods of time. Not to say an NFL player wouldn't be good at Rugby, but I'd take a team of reasonably trained Union players over a team of NFL players any day.

Of course he'd probably be great on the wing; can't deny that.

Where the US would struggle with using NFL players would be the forward pack. Most NFL players aren't built like a good forward pack. They are either too light/weak or too heavy/out of shape. Maybe a whole forward pack made of defensive ends and linebackers? Having been a hooker for just under a decade I weep for the neck of the hooker that has to deal with that in scrums...

edit: also skill positions. Fly half, scrum half, and fullback probably wouldn't be that awesome if we just used NFL players. Nobody would be able to kick the ball.

double edit: Of course with our showing against [size="1"]Canada I guess pretty much anything would be better than what we have now ;)

[quote name='ChurchSkiz' timestamp='1313600814' post='4850389']
[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313180091' post='4848398']
We don't need to scrape washout NFL/NBA players. There's plenty of solid rugby talent in USA rugby.

I just saw this this morning. I'm not a big 7's fan but I thought this was interesting. Miles Craigwell was going to be a bench-warmer for the dolphins and in less than a year he's starting for the USA team. I'm interested to see him play to see how he does. I think it will quiet a lot of the discussions about NFL fitness and the time it takes to learn Rugby skills. FYI he got a 21.4 on the beep test, which I'm pretty sure destroys the previous highest score (never heard of anyone doing over 19). Would be neat to see if he starts a trend for others in the NFL to follow, we might have an all-star 7s team.
[/quote]

7s isn't that accurate to how you'd play in a union game though. 7 minute halves with mostly break away runs is right up an NFL player's alley. NFL players are tremendously tuned towards short periods of high activity, but tend to be worse at pacing themselves and lasting for longer periods of time. Not to say an NFL player wouldn't be good at Rugby, but I'd take a team of reasonably trained Union players over a team of NFL players any day.

Of course he'd probably be great on the wing; can't deny that.

Where the US would struggle with using NFL players would be the forward pack. Most NFL players aren't built like a good forward pack. They are either too light/weak or too heavy/out of shape. Maybe a whole forward pack made of defensive ends and linebackers? Having been a hooker for just under a decade I weep for the neck of the hooker that has to deal with that in scrums...

edit: also skill positions. Fly half, scrum half, and fullback probably wouldn't be that awesome if we just used NFL players. Nobody would be able to kick the ball.

double edit: Of course with our showing against [size="1"]Canada I guess pretty much anything would be better than what we have now ;)
[/quote]

7's is like 14 minutes of solid sprinting, I always thought it was harder than 15s in terms of fitness. My point was simply that if this guy can go from the bench to starting for the USA in a year, then it shows that it's more than achievable for someone from the NFL to "get in shape" at the international level. The beep test at his stage is 22 minutes long and he crushed all the competition, so clearly fitness isn't an issue.

In terms of skills or body build, I think that's easily remediable. A year of training can do a lot in terms of skills, fitness level, and body composition. These guys are the most gifted athletes on the planet, it's why most of them were all-stars in multiple sports (ie baseball/football, track/basketball, etc.). Like I said, I think if we get a few people to get in there and show what they can do, we'll see more of it. I'm kind of surprised already that other countries (like NZ and Australia) that actually pay their rugby players aren't already recruiting from the NFL or NCAA. I've played with enough ex-football players to know that a few months of regular play can make them competitive.

7's is like 14 minutes of solid sprinting, I always thought it was harder than 15s in terms of fitness. My point was simply that if this guy can go from the bench to starting for the USA in a year, then it shows that it's more than achievable for someone from the NFL to "get in shape" at the international level. The beep test at his stage is 22 minutes long and he crushed all the competition, so clearly fitness isn't an issue.

7's takes more of a different kind of fitness. You don't really have to pace yourself that much, which is exactly what you'd have to do in a union match. 7s is generally less technical as most of the time it's get the ball and run as fast as you can, which is right up an NFL player's alley.

Union takes a huge amount of field awareness, more positional skill, and a much deeper knowledge of the sport than 7s.

In terms of skills or body build, I think that's easily remediable. A year of training can do a lot in terms of skills, fitness level, and body composition. These guys are the most gifted athletes on the planet, it's why most of them were all-stars in multiple sports (ie baseball/football, track/basketball, etc.). Like I said, I think if we get a few people to get in there and show what they can do, we'll see more of it. I'm kind of surprised already that other countries (like NZ and Australia) that actually pay their rugby players aren't already recruiting from the NFL or NCAA. I've played with enough ex-football players to know that a few months of regular play can make them competitive.
[/quote]
They'd definitely be competitive, but I've played rugby against both tremendous athletes and non-athletic skilled rugby players. The less athletic skilled rugby players tended to completely kick our asses, and the more athletic people usually turned the game into more of a grind.

I'll agree that we could make up for our lack of skill with better athletes, but I'd prefer we just had more skill. Our athleticism isn't really our weak point as it stands right now; our problem is we have guys who've been playing rugby for 6 years holding down day jobs competing against guys who have been playing rugby for close to 20 who don't have to do anything but train to play rugby.

[quote name='ChurchSkiz' timestamp='1313609817' post='4850463']
7's is like 14 minutes of solid sprinting, I always thought it was harder than 15s in terms of fitness. My point was simply that if this guy can go from the bench to starting for the USA in a year, then it shows that it's more than achievable for someone from the NFL to "get in shape" at the international level. The beep test at his stage is 22 minutes long and he crushed all the competition, so clearly fitness isn't an issue.

7's takes more of a different kind of fitness. You don't really have to pace yourself that much, which is exactly what you'd have to do in a union match. 7s is generally less technical as most of the time it's get the ball and run as fast as you can, which is right up an NFL player's alley.

Union takes a huge amount of field awareness, more positional skill, and a much deeper knowledge of the sport than 7s.

In terms of skills or body build, I think that's easily remediable. A year of training can do a lot in terms of skills, fitness level, and body composition. These guys are the most gifted athletes on the planet, it's why most of them were all-stars in multiple sports (ie baseball/football, track/basketball, etc.). Like I said, I think if we get a few people to get in there and show what they can do, we'll see more of it. I'm kind of surprised already that other countries (like NZ and Australia) that actually pay their rugby players aren't already recruiting from the NFL or NCAA. I've played with enough ex-football players to know that a few months of regular play can make them competitive.
[/quote]
They'd definitely be competitive, but I've played rugby against both tremendous athletes and non-athletic skilled rugby players. The less athletic skilled rugby players tended to completely kick our asses, and the more athletic people usually turned the game into more of a grind.

I'll agree that we could make up for our lack of skill with better athletes, but I'd prefer we just had more skill. Our athleticism isn't really our weak point as it stands right now; our problem is we have guys who've been playing rugby for 6 years holding down day jobs competing against guys who have been playing rugby for close to 20 who don't have to do anything but train to play rugby.
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I can agree with that. Does it bug you that USA Rugby seems to only care about 7s lately? It's like they've given up on Union. Whenever I see Rugby on TV now it's either 7s or League, it really irks me.

One thing I noted at the time
I dont know if its a good idea to have the ireland vs the United states game on
11 september 2011, i.e. 10 years to the day of the twin towers. Now if I was a terrorist I'ld be circling that date/venue

yes go georgia

though I was a bit worried when england scored those 2 tries near the end with 14mins left and only 10 points until I lose my bet.

Its been a very good tournament, esp for betting, Ive only lost 2 bets so far from the ~10 Ive stuck on, though one was 125:1 so I only lost $10 on that the other was $25 though.
I knew the matches were gonna be closer than the TAB/media have been predicting, the gap between the nations is becoming closer and closer like football.
I'ld still say this is NZs tourament to win, ~50% chance. I wouldnt put money on them though (bad return as its less than 2:1 )

I may go and cheer on USA next tuesday night against italy, I have a feeling the US might upset them

yes go georgia

Can you explain what all of these mean? I have no idea how betting on rugby works

I gather the first one is betting on georgia to beat the spread on england, and the latter is betting on NZ to score a lot of tries, but I do not know what that number is by reading the ticket.

I may go and cheer on USA next tuesday night against italy, I have a feeling the US might upset them[/quote]
o/

It is pretty much our best bet at a win besides russia in our group. I predict an australia upset though

[sub]not srs...[/sub]