And based on Apple success the population WANT app stores to buy their stuff at so MS adding one is just giving the majority what they appear to want.

When this news first hit my reaction was 'company who provides software via closed app is scared of another company providing software via closed app'[/quote]In this context, "closed" means you buy a product, and software can only be installed on it when downloaded from one company (typically the one providing the OS), and they can decide whether software can be released at all on it. Are there hardware products like this for Steam?

The situation for Windows is unclear to me. Non-metro applications won't be using this "closed" system, so in that sense there's not much to worry about. On the other hand, I've heard the claims that WinRT is meant to replace Win32 - is it possible to write a non-Metro application on WinRT? If so, can WinRT non-Metro applications be distributed anywhere? Or is Win32 meant to live on anyway, with WinRT only intended for tablet-optimised applications?


Is there a consensus on this, or can someone provide a ref? Servant of the Lord claims that the Metro download site won't be closed, just that it'll have a huge advantage over other sites by being the default, similar to Google Play. I think there's an interesting point that even there, MS may be at risk of monopolistic practice if they do this with Windows 8 (similar to the problems they had with IE - the rules are different if you're a monopoly). But if they do it like Apple, and enforce this with DRM so that it's not possible (unless you "jailbreak" the device), then that's even more worrying. Can anyone clarify what the planned situation will be?

Even if non-tablet computers are safe, I think it's still reasonable to be concerned if we end up with one company having a monopoly on software distribution for tablets. Thankfully phone tablets are dominated by Android, and there's still plenty of choice for the larger Android tablets - but I worry if manufacturers end up switching from Android to Windows for their larger tablets (yes, I know everyone seems to be assuming Windows 8 on tablets will fail before it gets out of the door - but on the other hand, manufacturers haven't been having so great success on larger non-phone Android tablets, and they do seem to be gearing up to try their luck with Windows 8. Windows 8 doesn't need to outsell Apple here, simply doing better than the 10" Android tablets will risk Android being dropped from 10" tablets by most manufacturers).

What's the situation with WP7 - can applications only be distributed via MS? Or is it open like on other platforms like Symbian/Android?

Not to mention that the technology to enable such a thing has only recently really come into being on a 'general' scale - internet connection speeds, stability and coverage has improved a large amount in the few years since Win7 was released and its really only in the last couple of years that general people have gotten use to the idea of 'app stores'.[/quote]In the UK at least, broadband has been around and commonplace since the early 2000s. Download sites have been around for years - people have surely got long used to downloading software from the Internet! Whether it's freeware from a website, to systems like Steam. I agree it wouldn't have made so much sense way back for 2000/XP, but doing so around the Vista timeframe would have been fine. And it's not like MS have to wait until people are used to something, they can introduce things themselves too (as they often do). Admittedly, MS always get moaned at when they introduce something new, even if it's something good...

Although I can just see the idea being floated a few years ago, and MS thinking there'd get terrible publicity if they dared to make it so they get a 30% cut on all software. But now that the media have worshipped and praised Apple for doing exactly that, now MS can get away with it. Great move, media!

From my gaming, as long as I can install steam and run my games, I'm happy. I think Newell is being somewhat hyperbolic describing it as a "catastrophe", but from a consumer POV, my gut feel is that the desktop is circling the drain, and I really don't see win8 being a major player in the tablet market.

MS just don't have the "cool" factor in the market place and their marketing screams of the nerdy kid trying to fit in with popular crowd. I know lots of people who are happy to fight to the death over iOS vs Android, but I know no-one who cares that much about the Metro (or Win8 UI or whatever we're supposed to call it) ecosystem.[/quote]Most people don't care about "ecosystems" full stop - it's a marketing buzzword that companies like Apple create to make them look good, when no one really knows what it means. Judging success by how many zealots a platform has is a poor measure - in fact, typically the most popular platforms have fewer zealots, because the mainstream just want to use a platform, they don't get fanatical. You say IOS vs Android, but in my experience, Android fanatics are rare, it's mostly a one-sided match between a vocal minority going on about Apple all the time, and the rest who just don't care. But Android is far more popular, as was Symbian before that. On non-phone platforms, people are more fanatical about Linux and OS X, but most people use Windows.

Indeed, your point shows that MS don't have to worry - they have 90% market share without needing to be "cool".

I don't think they expect or need people to rush out and upgrade to Windows 8, MS have never worked like that. Most their sales come as people upgrade their computers, not because they just upgraded the OS. I imagine most their sales come from Windows being shipped with a new computer.

Tablets do not replace desktops. They are mostly simple consumption devices. You pick it up, sit on the couch, and read a book, flip through a comic, play a game, listen to a podcast, watch a youtube video, look at your facebook, browse the web, etc... All consumption type activities with minimal input needed.

...

Surface doesn't change this. Sure they include a physical keyboard, but so do countless other tablets. You can even buy surface like keyboards for your android or iOS device already. It doesn't change anything. It's about as useful as plugging in a keyboard to an PS3. It helps when entering text, but that's a rare activity. My tablet even has an optional keyboard dock that turns it into a netbook. Not buying it was 100$ well saved ;).

[quote name='SimonForsman' timestamp='1344826570' post='4968928']
Take Internet Explorer as an example, it is currently the only non free(as in beer) browser on the market, All other major browsers, including Apples safari are given away for free, are arguably better than Internet Explorer and still have a hard time competing, If it wasn't for Microsofts Desktop OS dominance IE would have either been free or the competitors would have been able to charge a fair price for their products aswell.

Large Company does something illegal, profits immensely (or else ensures a competitor doesn't profit).
Governments step in, punish Large Company with a huge fine.
Large Company still gets to reap the benefits of what it did, because the competitor is defeated, or because the indirect benefits of it's actions is worth more than the cost of the governmental fine.
Large Company lays low for a few years.
Large Company does something else illegal.

The government reacts way too slowly, and large companies get away with it.