Hi folks. I'm pretty new at scoring games, trying to get a little ahead. I can't expand my portfolio fast enough. After doing a couple of slightly confusing unpaid gigs, I find myself in need of a reality check, motivationally and technically.
Long story short, I want you to listen to my music, and tell me what you think are my weaknesses and strengths, and give me any good advice you can think of. Keep in mind that only some of it is specifically made with games in mind. Most of it is just made for practice, but I'm sure it all says something.
http://soundcloud.com/fisk42
Reality check for a composer
Hi Hugget.
My biggest comment is that it sounds like you are trying to make "videogame music"--- from 20 years ago. Stylistically, it sounds like you are trying to emulate the styles and orchestration of N64, early WII and maybe even SNES type game music.
These days, people hiring composers for "game music" are really looking for music with very high production values that matches the themes of their particular game--even for casual/iPhone, etc. games. (unless they are specifically looking for a "retro" sound/feel).
A great example of what I'm talking about is the bass patch in your "Boss battle". That is smack out of the mid 90's. Back then we *had* to use samples like that because of the technical restrictions on how game music was done. But for games today, we don't have those handcuffs, so why use those timbres/patches?
Aside from that, you have some good interplay of lines and interesting melodic and harmonic ideas. But I can't get past the retro feel.
I'd advise you to really stretch yourself, orchestration-wise. Try to make some great music-- not great "videogame music."
Brian Schmidt
GameSoundCon Oct 24/25 2012
www.GameSoundCon.com
My biggest comment is that it sounds like you are trying to make "videogame music"--- from 20 years ago. Stylistically, it sounds like you are trying to emulate the styles and orchestration of N64, early WII and maybe even SNES type game music.
These days, people hiring composers for "game music" are really looking for music with very high production values that matches the themes of their particular game--even for casual/iPhone, etc. games. (unless they are specifically looking for a "retro" sound/feel).
A great example of what I'm talking about is the bass patch in your "Boss battle". That is smack out of the mid 90's. Back then we *had* to use samples like that because of the technical restrictions on how game music was done. But for games today, we don't have those handcuffs, so why use those timbres/patches?
Aside from that, you have some good interplay of lines and interesting melodic and harmonic ideas. But I can't get past the retro feel.
I'd advise you to really stretch yourself, orchestration-wise. Try to make some great music-- not great "videogame music."
Brian Schmidt
GameSoundCon Oct 24/25 2012
www.GameSoundCon.com
Totally agree with what bschmidt said.
I also wanted to quickly note, that making money with music is not easy, so you should be willing to create music for super cheap or even completely free, that is ofcourse if the developers are trustworthy to actually finish what they started.
At first the more you put your self out there with a good price, the more awesome your portfolio becomes, and that's when people will notice you and you can start charging more.
Ignatus Zuk.
I also wanted to quickly note, that making money with music is not easy, so you should be willing to create music for super cheap or even completely free, that is ofcourse if the developers are trustworthy to actually finish what they started.
At first the more you put your self out there with a good price, the more awesome your portfolio becomes, and that's when people will notice you and you can start charging more.
Ignatus Zuk.
Author
Thanks to both of you!
I think I'm a bit damaged. I've lost a lot of sensitivity towards orchestration (or perhaps consciousness?), and always hear the compositional contents before their "wrapping". This is bad. I guess it may be good for picking up styles within composition (counterpoint, structure, harmony), but bad for learning the art of production, or combining the two disciplines. You've convinced me of where I should focus.
Also, I think most composers who are in some way a little inspired by retro videogames, have had a long time to get over that phase. I'm weird (freak weird), because I didn't even get properly into that phase until very recently. I became fascinated by the compositions of many video game classics and it did part of the damage on my style. It's silly. But it's mostly due to lack of production skills.
[s]@IgnatusZuk: Yeah, I agree. I don't need breadcrumbs from the developers who contact me. They're doing it really low-budget, and there are a lot of good composers working for free. So if I had to be paid, I wouldn't have a chance to get ahead. It makes perfect sense.[/s]
Edit: What I wrote above was misguided.
I think I'm a bit damaged. I've lost a lot of sensitivity towards orchestration (or perhaps consciousness?), and always hear the compositional contents before their "wrapping". This is bad. I guess it may be good for picking up styles within composition (counterpoint, structure, harmony), but bad for learning the art of production, or combining the two disciplines. You've convinced me of where I should focus.
Also, I think most composers who are in some way a little inspired by retro videogames, have had a long time to get over that phase. I'm weird (freak weird), because I didn't even get properly into that phase until very recently. I became fascinated by the compositions of many video game classics and it did part of the damage on my style. It's silly. But it's mostly due to lack of production skills.
[s]@IgnatusZuk: Yeah, I agree. I don't need breadcrumbs from the developers who contact me. They're doing it really low-budget, and there are a lot of good composers working for free. So if I had to be paid, I wouldn't have a chance to get ahead. It makes perfect sense.[/s]
Edit: What I wrote above was misguided.
Hello,
I too agree with Brian, but I strongly disagree with this:
If you truly wish to make a living producing music, selling your stuff for "super cheap" or giving it away for free is exactly what you should not do.
When you deal with professional game developing companies who are in the position of giving you a job which will actually make you some money, you'll see that their first concern will not be to pay as little as possible but to deal with a friendly and professional person who's up to the task of creating good music and who's - of course - asking to be paid for that service at nothing less than fair value.
Your chance to get ahead - and yes, this may sound counter-intuitive - is to a) find the right companies to work with and b) to ask for money when you perform your services. It may take some time and some sifting through the heaps and heaps of hobbyist projects that are often seemingly undistinguishable from professional ventures, but this is the way to start a business for yourself. At least that's what I've found.
I like to quote Michael Stoeckemann and Chris Huelsbeck whom I've had the pleasure to meet at an Audio Academy earlier this year.
They said something like: "95% of the projects we initially consider just aren't for us in the end, for whatever reason - be it financial or creative. When you look at things this way, you feel better about both rejecting projects or being rejected. In the end, there should be enough work for everyone who's good at what they do."
Cheers,
Moritz
I too agree with Brian, but I strongly disagree with this:
I also wanted to quickly note, that making money with music is not easy, so you should be willing to create music for super cheap or even completely free, that is ofcourse if the developers are trustworthy to actually finish what they started.
If you truly wish to make a living producing music, selling your stuff for "super cheap" or giving it away for free is exactly what you should not do.
When you deal with professional game developing companies who are in the position of giving you a job which will actually make you some money, you'll see that their first concern will not be to pay as little as possible but to deal with a friendly and professional person who's up to the task of creating good music and who's - of course - asking to be paid for that service at nothing less than fair value.
Your chance to get ahead - and yes, this may sound counter-intuitive - is to a) find the right companies to work with and b) to ask for money when you perform your services. It may take some time and some sifting through the heaps and heaps of hobbyist projects that are often seemingly undistinguishable from professional ventures, but this is the way to start a business for yourself. At least that's what I've found.
I like to quote Michael Stoeckemann and Chris Huelsbeck whom I've had the pleasure to meet at an Audio Academy earlier this year.
They said something like: "95% of the projects we initially consider just aren't for us in the end, for whatever reason - be it financial or creative. When you look at things this way, you feel better about both rejecting projects or being rejected. In the end, there should be enough work for everyone who's good at what they do."
Cheers,
Moritz
I also wanted to quickly note, that making money with music is not easy, so you should be willing to create music for super cheap or even completely free, that is ofcourse if the developers are trustworthy to actually finish what they started.
I don't agree with this at all - sorry to say, but I think its pretty easy to make money. If you put yourself out there and if you are good enough you should almost surely get a project to work on. I know this from personal experience. Just look through the classifieds section and if you see a dev project that your music would suit you e-mail them even if they aren't requesting a composer. This is how I got my work and in 1 month I had 4 projects (when I had no previous experience).
Hope this helps,
Caleb Faith
I dig the content. I do agree that the tones used are a little outdated. They would definitely fit a retro style RPG or something.
I would challenge yourself to make more than that. This shows you have the talent in composing
I would challenge yourself to make more than that. This shows you have the talent in composing
To simply put it, starting new with really anything is always hard, no one knows you.
Once you have a portfolio with previous games you've composed for, you're more likely to be desired by developers and see that you have what it takes to do what you say you can do.
I guess my advice is more on self marketing and long term, but you should keep it in mind.
Once you have a portfolio with previous games you've composed for, you're more likely to be desired by developers and see that you have what it takes to do what you say you can do.
I guess my advice is more on self marketing and long term, but you should keep it in mind.
Some additional thoughts on the job side of things:
Offering your services for free won't make you stand out from the crowd - there's hundreds, probably thousands of people doing just that, and many of them actually make good music.
Also, it's really hard to determine a point where you can say "Okay, now I'm charging for my services" if you've just given your stuff away for free until then - the afore-mentioned companies who are actually able to pay you will think of you as a hobbyist. Especially if your name is all over the internet with posts like "I'm offering my services for free because I'm building my portfolio."
Nothing speaks against doing hobbyist projects to gather some experience - but I strongly advise you to separate those from your business.
It is indeed possible to get a paying job just by demonstrating determination and providing appropriate and good-quality mock-ups, and there's other ways of showing reliability and trustworthiness: good communication skills and an honest interest in the project will get you far.
Making a living as a music freelancer is doable, but don't expect an easy ride. For me and for most other (young) musicians I know, it's a constant balancing act between being flexible job-wise (music production, teaching, live and studio jobs - sometimes spreading myself too thin) and focusing on the "big picture" (the age-old question, "Where do you see yourself in x years?").
That said: I'm by no means a veteran like Brian or a well-established composer like Nate (nsmadsen, you've probably seen him around
) - listen to what these guys have to say, they really know what they're talking about.
Best of luck,
Moritz
Offering your services for free won't make you stand out from the crowd - there's hundreds, probably thousands of people doing just that, and many of them actually make good music.
Also, it's really hard to determine a point where you can say "Okay, now I'm charging for my services" if you've just given your stuff away for free until then - the afore-mentioned companies who are actually able to pay you will think of you as a hobbyist. Especially if your name is all over the internet with posts like "I'm offering my services for free because I'm building my portfolio."
Nothing speaks against doing hobbyist projects to gather some experience - but I strongly advise you to separate those from your business.
It is indeed possible to get a paying job just by demonstrating determination and providing appropriate and good-quality mock-ups, and there's other ways of showing reliability and trustworthiness: good communication skills and an honest interest in the project will get you far.
Making a living as a music freelancer is doable, but don't expect an easy ride. For me and for most other (young) musicians I know, it's a constant balancing act between being flexible job-wise (music production, teaching, live and studio jobs - sometimes spreading myself too thin) and focusing on the "big picture" (the age-old question, "Where do you see yourself in x years?").
That said: I'm by no means a veteran like Brian or a well-established composer like Nate (nsmadsen, you've probably seen him around
) - listen to what these guys have to say, they really know what they're talking about.Best of luck,
Moritz
I also wanted to quickly note, that making money with music is not easy, so you should be willing to create music for super cheap or even completely free, that is ofcourse if the developers are trustworthy to actually finish what they started.
It's my advice to never work for free. All it does is continue the false impression that music (and a composer's time, talent, skill and effort) are worth nothing. Not to mention any hardware and software that composer has already invested in. And the notion that you can go from working for free to suddenly charging is flawed too. In my experience I've seen developers leave the moment a fee is mentioned and instead goes and finds the next free composer. Simply put: you want to be in business writing music for games?! Great! Act like a business from the get-go. In all other industries businesses set out and create models and plans to make a profit - otherwise they go out of business. For example, no doctor offers free surguries for the first year. But they might offer major discounts starting out.
At first the more you put your self out there with a good price, the more awesome your portfolio becomes, and that's when people will notice you and you can start charging more.
You want to be taken seriously as a composer? Start with being professional yourself and that means: producing the best work you can, being early (not on time) for everything, providing clear and consistent communication and charging a fair rate for your work, level of experience and skill level.
To simply put it, starting new with really anything is always hard, no one knows you. Once you have a portfolio with previous games you've composed for, you're more likely to be desired by developers and see that you have what it takes to do what you say you can do. I guess my advice is more on self marketing and long term, but you should keep it in mind.
Your advice is still flawed, in my opinion. It is very hard when starting out and yes, nobody knows you. But when I was starting out I worked on 1 (one) free game. It was a horrible experience where the developer left things unfinished. So it did very little for my resume, knowledge level and industry standing. The very next job I charged a rate - given a very LOW rate!
Instead of working for free a composer should charge something. Make it an exchange. If the client truly has no funds then make it a swap of services. "I compose your game's music, you redesign my music website for me!"Also you're not considering marketing/business plans that CAN ensure you get more work with a paying clients. It just takes a bit more work and creativity. Simply offering all of it for free is ridiculous.
Also your advice leaves out the consideration that negotating, reading, writing contracts and discussing the money side of things isn't important. How does one get better at something? By doing it. If a composer completely ignores the business sides of things then they'll be less prepared when a good opportunity (that's paying) comes along.
There's a misconception that what amateurs have zero impact on the pros in the industry. "It's the amateurs that make it tough for the professionals." - Harlan Ellison (warning rough language)
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