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What makes an RTS great?

Started by December 27, 2012 01:54 PM
78 comments, last by Dan Violet Sagmiller 11 years, 8 months ago

[quote name='DtCarrot' timestamp='1356948484' post='5016015']
Of course, to provide for balance, the areas near to the player will have the same type and quantity of resources so that both players will be in the same starting scenario.
[/quote]

That brings up another interesting thought. What if resources are not created equal. For instance, a robotic force would have little use for wood, but and Elf race would. (not that I'm planning Robots and Elves:) Each race or key might have their own strewngths and weaknesses. And perhaps portions of the maps could be dynamic. For instance, Instead of a map editor identifying that Crystal is found here, and Oil is found here, etc... perhaps it could just identify that this is a Resource spot, and when the map is generated, it automatically fills in appropriate resources for the base/race near by.

Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

[quote name='Krypt0n' timestamp='1356979218' post='5016129']
you build a barrack, but you could actually use it as a silo
[/quote]

I like the idea of multi-purposing buildings. Perhaps just that you have the ability to place a Facade' over existing buildings to make them look like others.

- I also like the idea of improving armor to buildings. I.e. the more metal you throw into it, the more armored it gets. etc...

Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

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[quote name='Krypt0n' timestamp='1356979218' post='5016129']
a hacking unit that highjacks opponents, but without controlling them. the player can figure out that one of his units is highjacked, but selecting it and giving orders, which a highjacked unit would obviously not understand, but as long as it has to just go on with the usual route e.g. a harvester, it would transport the hacking unit into the base. inside the base, the hacking unit could sabotage buildings, yet again, not destroy them or something, but, lets say, drop their efficiency. by how much? that depends on the player who's send the hack unit. if you set the efficiency of a factory to 99%, nobody might notice, but might also not change anything. you set it to 90% the opponent might notice it sooner or later. you set it to 0%, well, if it's in the middle of his attack, he might not realize his base is not working at all, if you do it during normal gameplay, you might delay him by 3 tanks or something.
[/quote]

I like this. I remember in "Dark Reign" (about the same time as Star Craft 1), you had an Infiltrator The Infiltrator was a character that was easily identifiable as one of yours, but he had excellent visual range, and if he say another Human unit, he could make himself look the same. The enemy's characters would NOT recognize him as an enemy, and unless the player noticed this rouge character acting on their own, they could move around freely.

- They would provide a few things of interest.

1) You could see around in the enemies base.

2) The infiltrator could sneak into an existing building.

3) The infiltrator could then start researching technologies that the building created. (starting with Level 1/weakest versions, and move up.

4) The infiltrator would have to make it back to your base and unload the information, but once done, you could then build the items as well.

5) if the enemy clicked on a building with an Infiltrator in it, they would see one was in it, and they could expell/mark them with a single click. All enemies would then see the Infiltrator as a character of the original race again.

It was a good idea, and something provided later in the game. It seems like an idea to introduce enhanced technologies. Perhaps they can't do a lot. For instance, if you put an American Plumber in front of missile diagrams for a foreign country's weapon defense system, chances are they would not be able to make anything from them. So perhaps the Infiltrator needs to be trained, and make repetitive trips, both sides learning from each other over time. And of course, not perfect duplicates, but simply new upgrades, or different units entirely.

Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

[quote name='hpdvs2' timestamp='1357009942' post='5016246']
That brings up another interesting thought. What if resources are not created equal. For instance, a robotic force would have little use for wood, but and Elf race would. (not that I'm planning Robots and Elves:) Each race or key might have their own strewngths and weaknesses. And perhaps portions of the maps could be dynamic. For instance, Instead of a map editor identifying that Crystal is found here, and Oil is found here, etc... perhaps it could just identify that this is a Resource spot, and when the map is generated, it automatically fills in appropriate resources for the base/race near by.
[/quote]

Maybe the amount of resources that will be changed in each map can depend on the match-up, as you have said a robotic force require more metal instead of wood, on the contrary, the Elves may require more wood. In this scenario, adjusting the resources of just a certain area will suffice. However, what if it match turns out to be Elves vs Elves, I don't think that in this case, the type of resources wouldn't imbalance the game too much since both players are in the same circumstances, if one is unable to make wood-heavy resources, so is the other.

Also, what I don't like about RTS games is the deathballs and AOE effect. Many a times, I see that the deathball system makes game dull. In Starcraft II, you build up a large army for 10-30 minutes in which the game can twist greatly to the side of one player in a matter of 10 seconds. Psionic Storms, Hunter Seeker Missle, Fungal Growth and Colloseus can wipe out large armies extremely quickly. In comparison, I prefer the Warcraft III style of game play. The fighting takes a rather long time which helps to express a player's combat skill better.

[quote name='hpdvs2' timestamp='1357010995' post='5016250']
Dark Reign
[/quote]

Nice game, at that time I never got to play it on my own computer. Only when I was visiting friends.

Didn't it also have really long firing distances for artillery and missiles? Over multiple screen widths?

That reminds me off Sudden Strike, there was no unit building or base management but it was still alot fun.

Perhaps someone could make a new thread for race ideas in an rts?

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Asymmetric factions.

Being able to win or lose at every point in the game - a 10/20 min build-up during which you are perfectly safe is no good.

Multiple factors to combat instead of fragile and shallow rock-paper-scissors. For example in Starcraft, when a number of Marines fight an equal value group of another unit type, who wins and by how much depends on positioning, upgrades, micro, and also the numbers of the units involved in the engagement.

Avoid unit/upgrade complexity. It just makes the game more of a boring Excel spreadsheet, and forces a serious player to memorize a ton of stuff. Instead have strongly different units. Make all decisions count.
Perhaps someone could make a new thread for race ideas in an rts?

Heh heh heh... http://www.gamedev.net/topic/636893-rts-games-looking-for-some-racy-ideas-d/

Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

In regards to "Dark Reign":

[quote name='shadowomf' timestamp='1357051612' post='5016373']
Nice game, at that time I never got to play it on my own computer. Only when I was visiting friends.
Didn't it also have really long firing distances for artillery and missiles? Over multiple screen widths?
[/quote]

Yes, had Artillery that could shoot half way across some of the smaller maps. Often hard to find. It took longer for things to be destroyed, but you couldn't heal easily either. Had to build a repair bay and have your vehicles return to it. Excellent game. Very editable to. all the character designs where in text script, so you could attach weapons. For fun, I would attach tachion tank cannons to the top of construction rigs, and the would build turrets in no time. heck of a lot of destructive ability.

Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

[quote name='DtCarrot' timestamp='1357019324' post='5016287']
Also, what I don't like about RTS games is the deathballs and AOE effect. Many a times, I see that the deathball system makes game dull. In Starcraft II, you build up a large army for 10-30 minutes in which the game can twist greatly to the side of one player in a matter of 10 seconds. Psionic Storms, Hunter Seeker Missle, Fungal Growth and Colloseus can wipe out large armies extremely quickly. In comparison, I prefer the Warcraft III style of game play. The fighting takes a rather long time which helps to express a player's combat skill better.
[/quote]

Thats a good point In starcraft, you go through units like their swiss cheese. Increasing the life and decreasing the damage might work well to increase strategies.

Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

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