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Joystickgenie

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  1. Basically you're not getting any response from this because this is not the right place to look for help with this. You should be talking with Full Sails financial aid department.
  2. Quote:Original post by tsloper Quote:Original post by jchmack How qualified am I? A chicken kicked open the oven door and hopped out and shouted at the cook, "how done am I?" The chef replied, "shut up and get back in the oven." Wow Tom, is that a new one? I have seen you comment to these guys before but I don't recall that line. I think I might use it with some of my students.
  3. Quote:Original post by Derakon But what does having a complex set of inputs have to do with learning all the moves? Assuming you are fully capable of entering every sequence of inputs needed, why does it matter if you just do Forward+B versus if you do Forward, Down, Down-Forward, B if the result is the same move? Well using street fighter 3 as an example again. Taking a direction and a single button as a unique input is already used. Using Necro as an example (because he is the character I use the most) I know that back+fierce punch, down+fierce punch, neutral fierce punch, and down+back+fierce punch, all have different animations and capabilities even though they are all single punches and not special moves. After looking over his move list and possible variations on the moves he has 49 different attacks that he can do during a fight each with different capabilities and uses. That is probably about average for all the characters in the game. Then if you go into even more complicated fighters like tekken, soul caliber, or virtual fighter it most likely goes into the 100s for some characters. So that is the real difference, it's not that the simple inputs aren't being used, it's that the more complex movement are being used as well. Having that amount of complexity takes a while to learn but once you do it gives you so much more freedom in the game and allows for people to use characters in unique fashions. You could talk to 10 players who all use the same character and most likely none of them will use the character in the same way. I understand that when someone is just beginning to play the game they may feel a bit overwhelmed by the number of moves but not knowing how to do everything is ok because you don't have to know how to do everything to play the game. You can play semi-competitivly if all you know is the 6 basic neutral attacks and one special move. I have been playing the game off and on for probably around 3 years now and I just learned something new about one of the characters yesterday, not knowing it didn't make the game less fun, but playing the game for years and still learning new things about it sure made it more enjoyable to me.
  4. Quote:Original post by DerakonYour submission that five minutes of practice is all that's needed is only accurate if the players have a reference sheet in front of them and have prior experience playing other fighting games. Well if they are playing the game at home and not the arcade then yes they do in fact have that. There are generally move lists both in game and in the manual for traditional fighting games. Even if they are in the arcade many machines do even have the move list printed out on the console just below the screen. Quote:Original post by Derakona) managing to actually input the sequence properly, and b) knowing when to use the move and when not to. Learning the latter can actually be fun, but learning the former is just mechanical practice, which very few people find entertaining. Thus, presumably, you want to maximise the latter, and minimize the former. For that I completely agree. The player should only have to practice how to put the move in for a short while and then they should be concentrating on how to use the move for the rest of the time. But I have never felt that a quarter circle from down to forward was to difficult to enter either. For smash brothers in general, we will have to agree to disagree there. I personally don't enjoy the game at all. I find the controls to be awkward (not really sure why on that part) and that I don't have the amount of options available to me as I would like. 13 possible actions per character just seemed so small and limiting when coming from more traditional fighting games. I really felt like it didn't have close to the depth that I expect in a fighting game.
  5. That goes both ways. By focusing your game on the casual crowd you loose the dedicated crowd. If you can play that game for hours practicing moves and the games mechanics and another person walk up never playing that game and beast you or performs just as well, you just lost the dedicated player. You may be making it more accessible but that does not correlate directly to more desirable. Quote:Original post by Derakon * Knowledge of what inputs form a valid move * Practice simply performing the inputs correctly The former means that nobody is going to do remotely well with a player that they've never played before unless they've pre-memorized the move list (there's only so far you can get with standard attacks), and the latter means that nobody is going to do very well in your game at all without a lot of practice with its input system. Casual crowds are nice and all but with fighting game (which is a niche market to begin with) you have to think about competitive play and that means thinking about knowledge and practice. All games have learning curves. Learning curves are not a bad thing. The base learning for a game should take no more then a few minutes and will street fighter as an example (yes, I'm bringing it up again, because it's awesome that way) you can learn the basic moves of the game in under five minutes easily. So if two people who have never played the game before step up to play it they will both be able to play with each other and have fun very quickly. However it takes much longer to learn the advanced portions of the game. Someone walking up never playing that game will most likely never beat someone who has played the game for a year unless that player is handicapping himself somehow. But for competitive games like fighting games I fail to see why that is a problem.
  6. Quote:Original post by the_dannobot There are other ways to balance a character other than just move damage, input motion, and startup time. You can tweak the size and location of the hitboxes to make the better move hit in a small, weird area. Now it's a powerful move, but it's only useful in specific situations. Oh I absolutely agree. There are other ways to balance characters then just the move inputs. Infact the move inputs are probably one of the smaller contributing factors when balancing is concerned. But I believe it should be one of the factors. Let’s use street fighter 3 as an example. There are many moves that use the same motion. There are a ton of moves that use quarter circle forward, down forward down-to-forward, half circle forward, quarter circle back and double quarter circle forward supers. You know that when you use quarter circle forward input you will most likely be doing a special move that does moderate damage for the character straight forward. This is good because it gives everyone coming up to the machine a basic entry point. Having similar moves allows you to grow and learn from that starting point. That is why so many entry level players use Ryu, Ken and other similar characters. You already know the move list now all you have to do is learn the subtleties of the moves. But now lets look at characters like Hugo (the wrestler for this street fighter) if you take his special throw move and change it’s input to just a quarter circle forward to make it consistent with other character’s move lists rather then the full 360 motion. The 360 motion limits the use of the move. As you do the 360 the character has the tendency to jump while attempting to perform the move. To get around this you learn that you can only use this move when you are either already jumping or have something else going on to limit the jump like blocking your opponents move, standing up from the ground or many other options. This is an important thing to learn in the process of mastering the character. Now if it used a motion from another characters’ movelist you wouldn’t have that tendency to jump in the middle of performing the move and you could use the move while walking up to the character or from just a neutral stand. You could change other balancing variables with the move but by doing so you would have changed one of the core designs of the character and the use of this move when he is meant to be a character that is played more defensively then others and this move is meant to be more challenging to put off during combat. Quote:Original post by the_dannobot I think that those are all better ways to balance the game than making the moves difficult to perform. They require the player to figure out where each move fits into the rules of the game and when to use it. That makes the game harder to master, whereas adding arbitrary difficulty to performing a move just makes the game harder to learn. Move lists are about far more then just making the game harder to learn. The movements change the way that game is played entirely and learning how to use the motions that you have to do to put in the move to your advantage is a big deal in adding to the games depth. While putting in quarter circle back + punch with Necro in the game you are doing more then just performing the flying viper move. In the process you are crouching and possibly teching low, then crouching and blocking low and then blocking high while standing. All of these instances can be used to your advantage while performing the move. If everyone has the same motions for the moves everyone has the same advantages and disadvantages that those inputs lead to, making the game a much more shallow experience. Balancing fighters but making every fighter feel unique in fighting games is probably one of the most challenging parts of the design and most important parts. It is very hard to get right so you need as many tools at your disposal as possible to do it. The move list is a great place to put subtle balancing changes into the game for moves that would normally be slightly out of balance without changing the core uses of the move and in my opinion is one of the more important aspects in making the characters feel unique from each other.
  7. I really have to disagree. The motion of a move and how complicated it is usually has a direct correlation to the use of the move. Having everyone with the same move list would have many problems to it. - You don’t want to have the actions the user inputs contradict the movements of the character. For example, with characters with many counter moves rather the offensive moves you don’t want to have a move combination directed forward when that move makes the character back up. In guilty geer if axl’s Tenhouseki or Housoubako used a forward motion it would feel very wrong as it makes him back up and counter. - Movements change the way the character is played and gives positives and negatives to the move. For charging characters the user isn’t just holding back for a second before pressing forward to perform the move, he is defending by blocking for that second or more as well. This allows the character to have a move half entered while blocking making the counter move much faster to perform. In street fighter having Guile use the sonic boom and flash kick with quarter circle forward and down forward down-to-forward respectively would make him play completely differently. - The difficulty of the move correlates to its effectiveness. If you have one character use quarter circle forward and do 10 points of damage with little delay and another character do 50 points of damage with little delay why would you pick the first character? Kings moves are more difficult to perform because they have a greater reword when they are performed correctly.
  8. people still beat box? I thought that went out in the early 90s.
  9. Game: Xbox live Feature: Needless Online mode/achievements Comments: it seams that every game in existence must have an online component to it now. Some games are meant to be single player and that is alright. I don’t need to know that I am better at the trampoline game in Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude then my buddy and I don’t need to be rewarded with an achievement for entering the options screen of madden.
  10. The first game that comes to mind with me is Street Fighter 3. Taunting with each character had different effects; for Alex it increased his throw damage, for Necro it increased the damage of the next combo by a certain percentage, for Q it increased his defensive power. For some character taunting is a definitive part of their strategy, I have yet to meet anyone who can play Q well who doesn’t taunt all the time. Using his taunt made up for his exceedingly slow speed. I don’t think there are any characters who’s taunt does something to their opponent, it all seems to be a way of buffing themselves.
  11. Sure the powerful engine, coop, solid gameplay, and a mostly new game mechanic (action button) helped, but I really don’t think that that is what made it big. There have been tons of games that came out that have all those things and don’t go anywhere. I think what made GoW extremely popular was that it was in the right place at the right time. A big new system came out that a lot of people jumped on, all of the console shooter fans that Halo made were itching for a new game, and there was a general lack of competition from other games on that console at the moment. I think these factors more then anything else really got the ball rolling for GoW.
  12. Quote:Original post by Palidine Different cities around the world have different policies. For instance, IIRC, it's ok to use Paris, but it's not ok to destroy monuments at runtime. i.e. you can have a pristine Eiffel tower or a destroyed one but the player cannot see it get destoyed. The complexity is that there is no uniform copyright law that holds internationally. Different countries have different laws so you have to essentially obey the law of the country whose city you are displaying. -me Really? They did it in twisted metal 2, but I guess that was a long time ago. Do you know when they instated that rule?
  13. Quote:Original post by bmanruler Game: Mmo's (most of them) Feature: Wow clone (generic fantasy rpg) Comments: I know lots of people want a piece of the Wow pie, but guess what? Wow kind of has a hold on that market. If you want to do well come up with a good original idea (hint: if it has elves and magic odds are you aren't as original as you might think). I for one would love to see more Sci-fi games, but that is just me. You can’t possibly be saying people are copying WOW with elves and magic can you? Copying D&D or Tolkien or EQ or ultima online or something like that, alright, but WOW come on. There have been hundreds of games using the elves, dwarves, monsters, magic and humans setting. It was cliché before warcraft 1 (the RTS), heck it was before there even were video games. But then if you look at wow that kinda goes against your point of staying away from that genera. WOW used the endlessly cliché setting and made something great out of it, so why can’t anyone else?
  14. Game: Castlevania (and a ridiculous number of other games) Feature: Keys for door being located in the opposite corner of the castle. Comments: What kind of a sick bastard is Dracula to have the keys for his castles basement located in the very tip of the tower and the key for the treasure chest that’s in the tower located at the bottom of the basement. Sometimes in places that are to ridiculous to fathom (how did the key for the weapons locker get to be floating in the air 30 ft where you have do a double jump to reach it, if you can double jump that is) Granted having them right next to the door would be stupid too but put them somewhere that makes sense at least.
  15. Quote:Original post by Sneftel Quote:Original post by Joystickgenie The game would have to be very cheap to play, like a marketplace game selling for a few bucks. Why? To lower the bar? Players expend both money and time on a game. If they won't play it at $50, they probably won't play it at $5 either. lower the bar? No, nothing of the sort. It’s just that if the challenges are so hard to pull of that the game would be very very short for the vast majority of the people playing. I looking at it in more of a risk versus reward type of logic. Making the players pay 50 for a game that they most likely wont be able to get past the first level on would kill the game entirely however if you only have to pay 5 to give it your try you are much more likely to. Quote:Original post by Sneftel Quote:The challenges would have to be short enough in time length that people don’t feel they wasted their time in attempting. Only if playing through 90% of the challenge and then failing would be a waste of their time... Well I’m not thinking about 90% here I’m thinking more along the lines of the 10% or 5% people. If the challenges are to long it will give off an impression that it is impossible. It’s just nicer to say you made it 25% of the way on level one of a game that has 20 levels then it is to say you made it 5% of the way on level one on a game that has 4 levels. Keeping all the goals close together will aide in giving the impression of achievement for the players that don’t make it as far. Quote:Original post by Sneftel Quote:The challenges would still have to be fun to play regardless of their difficulty. ...and if this were the case, then it wouldn't matter how long they are. It seems like you're trying to solve one problem two ways, and I'm not certain that the two solutions play well with each other. Well this one was more to avoid “if it’s that hard it can’t be fun” mentality. Quote:Original post by Sneftel Quote:There would have to be recognition to successful participants in deferent levels, recognizing people who make it partially though as well as the few who complete it. Playing for recognition is a very tricky thing. Nobody knows who #523 is, and there aren't many #2s or #3s. Well this goes back to the “goals close together” thing. If after the game is out for a month and no one has been able to complete it yet that means no one got a real sense of accomplishment yet and many people will have gotten discouraged thinking that there it no way to advance. However if there are lesser goals between that can be measured, like say you are 1 out of only 300 people to make it to level 5, then it at least gives those 300 a sense of accomplishment and it shows to the other players that advancement is possible. Quote:Original post by Sneftel What are your thoughts on MMOs like WOW? There are items which require immense amounts of dedication to require, which only a few players ever will. At the same time, people who don't get these still have a good time. Notice that recognition isn't a major part of the equation: Someone walking past your character might see the cool-looking helmet, but it isn't like there's a leaderboard somewhere. (Well, there is, but when did YOU last look at it?) Yeah there have been a lot of posts like this. In most games there are extra things that can be done that will increase the sense of achievement in the player. Killing the weapons/final summons in the final fantasy games, getting rare and sometimes secret items, turning it up to uber difficulty mode and things the like. That’s fine and I recognize them, they ad a bit of longevity to games. But that’s not what the games are about, you don’t have to kill the weapons, you don’t have to get the extra items, and you can play it on kiddy mode and finish the game just like everyone else. What I was asking is more could a game float where that is the goal, where the game is completely competitive and you are trying to achieve what other people haven’t and that’s the main focus of the game.