mekk_pilot

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About mekk_pilot

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  1. Embarking on the big one.

    My friend did some hired gun programming on a triple A title, so he knows what he's talking about. He is adamantly refusing to "do it for me." He wants me to learn. I don't know how long it took him, but the same day I asked him about bridge, he put up a Jscript skeleton of the game, that has maybe 25% functionality (though it uses text, not graphics). There's no AI, it's multiplayer. Probably he meant you could do multiplayer bridge in Jscript in an hour, but I don't know, I'm not him. I think I'm going to get my feet wet at ffhacktics hacking FFT. I've gotten the message loud and clear.
  2. Embarking on the big one.

    BTW, I asked my friend about bridge; this was his response: [quote] lol, 300-500 hrs to program bridge. Maybe if you were making a entire engine (graphics, sound, I/O) from scratch for release onto the XBox 360 or something. A good programmer could do it in an hour. This goes to show that those that cannot do, post on forums. (also, teach) People that do build games spend time building games and going to conferences. [/quote]
  3. Embarking on the big one.

    [quote name='Tom Sloper' timestamp='1342367299' post='4959286'] [quote name='mekk_pilot' timestamp='1342363679' post='4959268']How many man-hours would it take your typical hobbyist programmer to create a working bridge application[/quote] Three months. Edit: sorry, I misread the question. I was talking about an experienced professional programmer (working full time), not a "typical hobbyist." Hobbyist would take longer (more man-hours). [/quote] Full-time? You're saying it would take a professional programmer nearly 500 hours to program a game of bridge?
  4. Embarking on the big one.

    [quote name='Tom Sloper' timestamp='1342367233' post='4959284'] 8. Yes, very unreasonable. Your friend would have to work for years on a hope and a prayer (instead of a wage or salary), and you don't have a plan for making money from the game once he's made it. [/quote] The 75/25 split was in reference to an already completed and adequately tested card game I've designed. By this point, I am, by my own admission, a little OT. But this is why I'm asking how many hours it takes to program a bridge game. If I've got a game, less complicated than bridge, and I've put over a 100 hours into the creation and testing of it, then is a 3:1 pay ratio really unfair? If he puts 100 hours into it, do programmers usually make 3 times what designers make?
  5. Embarking on the big one.

    [quote name='GeneralQuery' timestamp='1342362405' post='4959262'] ...aka "just a small matter of programming": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_matter_of_programming [/quote] If I thought it was going to be cake, I'd have asked for a bigger cut. But seriously, what do you have to keep track of*? 36 cards in a random order? Integer values of drawn cards? Position on gamefield? Down, both of possession and quarter (there is a hard limit of 50 downs/half)? Offensive, Defensive modifiers (add/subtract 1 to int, how difficult) Victory/Loss conditions? The score? Options for action on a given down (up to 7)? I haven't so much as print effed hello world, but If I can write all the rules on two pages, and we're dealing with 36 cards, yes, I think it's probably just A SMALL MATTER OF PROGRAMMING. Elegant, and Arrogant. It's just how I roll. *I know you can't answer that. EDIT 2: So educate me then: How many man-hours would it take your typical hobbyist programmer to create a working bridge application, given stock playing card graphics?
  6. Embarking on the big one.

    [quote name='AltarofScience' timestamp='1342357222' post='4959248'] I do not know your relationship as I said earlier, but I am also not sure you realize how long it would take to program your game and also that it would likely not make any money. Most games don't. [/quote] How long could it possibly take to code a card game that's less complicated than bridge? As far as making money, American football is pretty popular. And I should mention that all the testing I did on this game, probably over a hundred hours through all the iterations, I didn't have to twist anyone's arm to play it with me. They came to *me* after they got a taste of this dope. It's mad addictive, if you like and understand American football, that is.
  7. Embarking on the big one.

    [quote name='Wiggin' timestamp='1342352200' post='4959238'] [quote name='mekk_pilot' timestamp='1342345662' post='4959223'] With my card game and my programmer friend, I'm just like "Look, there might not even be a market for phone apps in the 2 years it's going to take me to learn to program and sprite this fucking thing. Just take this completed, tested design and make it and give me 25%" Does that sound so unreasonable? [/quote] Yes, it does sound unreasonable. Your use of the word "just" when talking about what you want him to do is unreasonable. You'll lose a friend with this attitude. [/quote] You know nothing of our relationship. We're constantly making reasonable demands of each other.
  8. Embarking on the big one.

    With my card game and my programmer friend, I'm just like "Look, there might not even be a market for phone apps in the 2 years it's going to take me to learn to program and sprite this fucking thing. Just take this completed, tested design and make it and give me 25%" Does that sound so unreasonable? Admittedly, my "big one" isn't a completed tested design, but what I guess I'm really asking is, how can a designer get programmers and artists on board? I'm beyond what I can do with a standard deck of cards and PnP and dice.
  9. Embarking on the big one.

    [quote name='AltarofScience' timestamp='1342336286' post='4959206'] Well I did forget one thing. Ideas are more common than programming skills, but one needs more than one programmer per designer and furthermore up to a point increasing programmers is beneficial to design and thus finances, whereas more designers is not a beneficial addition. This is similar for artists. There are simply more designers than programmers, even if you look at a 1:1 ratio, which is not at all reasonable. You may need 10-100 programmers in a game, you do not need more than 1-5 designers. [/quote] I've always liked the long odds. =)
  10. Embarking on the big one.

    [quote name='AltarofScience' timestamp='1342301668' post='4959137'] However programming is the tedious part. You have a big complex game with lots of interconnecting parts and that is why you spend months weeding out tiny little logic errors that make your game totally unplayable. [/quote] I will grant you that, and in fairness to the poster I semi- went off on, that's probably what he meant. All I meant to say was that I've done the table-top thing, I've done the card game design, and balancing that shit was WORK. I'm not saying I didn't have a little fun doing it, but having fun and doing something productive aren't mutually exclusive.
  11. If you're going to have in-game progression, which I'm not convinced is necessary (I think the progression should be in the player's head, having him better figure out how to manipulate your game world as the game goes on), I think skill-based is the way to do it. Item-based and Stat-based might as well be the same thing, if you're just increasing numbers and not opening up new skills. Giving players new skills as they advance through the game will change the gameplay every time a new skill is added (as long as they are well designed and actually make a difference in the game world). This is much more fun than "Yay, I gained a level! I have 8 more HP now!" Edit: Saw you say that items will add skills. In Link to the Past, this was handled really, really well. That would also be an option. I guess my point is the power players are acheiving should allow them to influence the game world in new ways, not just "I can beat these enemies who once were slightly numerically superior to me."
  12. Embarking on the big one.

    [quote name='Legendre' timestamp='1342267474' post='4959053'] [quote name='mekk_pilot' timestamp='1342203026' post='4958851'] So I'm not just a guy who is coming in here with some half-baked idea and wants everyone to do all the hard work. I mean, design is work, I know because I've done it. [/quote] Design is actually the easy part of game development. And I think deep down you know that. If the programming and art were easier than design, you would already be doing it. [/quote] I think it's more because I'm not really talented at art (although I have a good eye and have won prizes for photographs), and I didn't take comp sci in college, therefore programming would be something totally elective. I submit this to you: if design was easy, why do most games suck? Maybe programmers are a little arrogant thinking they can do it all? I know everyone wants to design. But actually doing it takes skill and iteration. Yeah, I know I'M a little arrogant, but I've probably spent a couple of hundred hours designing and testing what I've finished. 90% of the ideas I see on this site are crap, totally derivative or just foolish. There's a reason Game Designers are the rock stars of the actual industry, because they're the ones probably most responsible for a game being fun or not. Great Design can redeem a game even if the gameplay is buggy or the graphics look 5 years old. Poor design will damn a game that looks good and is bug-free. Design IS the game.
  13. Embarking on the big one.

    Okay then, if I'm going to have to do it myself, where should this total noob at art and programming start, if he wants to design a TRPG with randomly generated 3d terrain and sprites on top of that as characters? BTW, like I said, I designed a card game(a way to simulate american footbal using a standard deck, A-9, and Kings to represent defensive plays), and if you check my first posts here, I've designed a table-top RPG. And I ran some rudimentary stats on those games for the sake of balancing. So I'm not just a guy who is coming in here with some half-baked idea and wants everyone to do all the hard work. I mean, design is work, I know because I've done it. Edit: After walking around a bit, I think one possible answer to my question presents itself: I should take the card game I've designed and make it into a phone app. My friend was supposedly going to work on it, but we haven't talked about it in a long time, and I think he'd rather take a mentor role than get his hands dirty. OK, so, given that I want to turn an already designed and tested card game into a phone app, where should I start?
  14. Embarking on the big one.

    [quote name='AltarofScience' timestamp='1342162409' post='4958672'] Make a phone app? [/quote] I have designed a card game and have a friend who might make it for me. We haven't talked about it much lately. [quote] Depends on the game. If you wanna make a 3D RTS or RPG, if you have no technical skills its gonna make the opposite of a profit. [/quote] I was thinking a TRPG, with 3d terrain (tough to do height in 2d) and sprite-based characters.
  15. So I'm just a lowly wanna-be designer/writer, and I'm looking for advice on viable ways to actually get a game made. My first instinct is to write some kind of 200+ page design doc covering the main elements of the design and the story(s), then use parts of that (or just email the whole thing to whoever is interested) to attract programmers and artists. I know this probably comes up here a lot, but what IS the best way for a person with little technical skill to get into a design position on a game? I'm not saying this is going to be triple A, but I would like it to turn a profit.