I agree with KHawk in that the site is a major meeting point between different people. As a person who programs all day at work I feel to tired to come home and then spend most of my time programming at home. Thus my game programming progresses slowly. It seems to me, as a casual observer, that the people who start the topics generally are students who have more spare time. I have also noticed that the really good answers come from poeple who know their biscuits, people who I''d guess are programmers professionally, therefore some of the answers are too technical for the general newcomer.
I experience this myself when I dare venture away from the lounge into the more specialised areas of programmer that I''m interested in. For example :- I am fasinated by artificial intelligence. If I have a wonder over to the forum for AI then I''m swamped by technical details that I don''t understand and if I was to ask a question to these "experts" I''d be asking a stupid question. I don''t know any better. I have great difficutly finding articles for new comers on AI. They all seem to focus on one area of AI and I don''t know what aspect really interested me. But I wander from the point.
Another problem as I see it, is that nowadays people are more inclined to want to see results. Alot of learning to program is a case of the chicken and the egg. In DirectX you can set the screen up but you cannot see anything or you can set up the palettes but you have no screen. To get to a stage where something is seen is quite a large step. Once this step is made then people will be greeted with learning even more about refresh rates, blitting, lpitch etc. It never seems to stop so people will want quick fire solutions. Instant gratification. Get rich quick. It''s all the same really. We''re in a odd situation where we can remember the games of the past made by Bob in his bedroom. We think we can do it to. We can''t. in a couple of years when todays younger generation get to around 15 they will have only experienced games programmed by teams with big budgets. Then the newbies will stop in this sense, but we will be debating different stuff, and this will no longer matter.
Twig Meister
Is this place overrun by newbies?
The real problem with people who are just starting programming games is that they dream of a perfect game.
For example someone plays Quake II and he thinks:
"Hmmm...Why shouldn''t i try to make a game like Quake?"
So he focuses on making a game like Quake.
For people who have a programming background this thought would sound very naive.But for this guy who has been all his life a "user" this seems as simple as playing the game.
So when he posts at a forum his first question would be:
"How do i make a game like Quake?".And this of course would sound quite funny(or annoying) to an experienced programmer because of many reasons.
So let me clear up some things:
1)Games like Quake are created from many (and i mean many)professional programmers and artists who work fulltime.
2)So these games require big budgets to pay these professionals,to distribute the game,etc. and this done only by big companies which can afford the money or the risk.
For Quake II only ,2 million dollars were spend and 1 or 2 years before it hits the market.
3)When you start something(not only a game) you should start from the "bottom".You will then have more possibilities to succeed.For example try making a simple windows game,like a solitaire or a minesweeper.Or try some tetris and pac-man which give you real experience.
Bigger projects sometimes never finish.
4)Team up with other people.Cooperation will help you finish a game earlier and will make it better and more optimized.
That''s what i believe someone who just starts programming games should follow.I would never consider myself an experienced programmer so some people more experienced than me may disagree.
Voodoo4
For example someone plays Quake II and he thinks:
"Hmmm...Why shouldn''t i try to make a game like Quake?"
So he focuses on making a game like Quake.
For people who have a programming background this thought would sound very naive.But for this guy who has been all his life a "user" this seems as simple as playing the game.
So when he posts at a forum his first question would be:
"How do i make a game like Quake?".And this of course would sound quite funny(or annoying) to an experienced programmer because of many reasons.
So let me clear up some things:
1)Games like Quake are created from many (and i mean many)professional programmers and artists who work fulltime.
2)So these games require big budgets to pay these professionals,to distribute the game,etc. and this done only by big companies which can afford the money or the risk.
For Quake II only ,2 million dollars were spend and 1 or 2 years before it hits the market.
3)When you start something(not only a game) you should start from the "bottom".You will then have more possibilities to succeed.For example try making a simple windows game,like a solitaire or a minesweeper.Or try some tetris and pac-man which give you real experience.
Bigger projects sometimes never finish.
4)Team up with other people.Cooperation will help you finish a game earlier and will make it better and more optimized.
That''s what i believe someone who just starts programming games should follow.I would never consider myself an experienced programmer so some people more experienced than me may disagree.
Voodoo4
Yeah I posted a "where to start" message. I spent about three hours trying to figure out what I needed for a compiler. You have to download about 6 different things. And then when I did download them all I couldn''t figure out how to work them. I went to the link on the main page that says "start here" and I couldn''t find an article in there that helped me so I went to the messageboard. Something wrong with that. I belive In a reply to the my own message that I didn''t understand how to use a compiler. I guess you people would rather complain more than anything else.
Some one prove me wrong and tell me where there is an article that will walk you through all the steps from knowing nothing and having nothing to writing your first "Hello World" program!!
And it''s title "Starting C/C++ and Games" not where to start.
Good grief people move on with your life.
Some one prove me wrong and tell me where there is an article that will walk you through all the steps from knowing nothing and having nothing to writing your first "Hello World" program!!
And it''s title "Starting C/C++ and Games" not where to start.
Good grief people move on with your life.
quote:Original post by foxtrot
Yeah I posted a "where to start" message. I spent about three hours trying to figure out what I needed for a compiler. You have to download about 6 different things. And then when I did download them all I couldn''t figure out how to work them. I went to the link on the main page that says "start here" and I couldn''t find an article in
I think you are getting confused here. This site is called Gamedev.net, not LearnYourCompiler.Com.
It is a matter of specificity. I have noticed, from six years of netting and 12 of BBSing, that people gravitate to one solution to solve problems (ergo why Yahoo has everything from greeting cards to stock quotes to email). People are lazy, and don''t want to look for the right solutions, just the quickest solutions.
This is where the problems begin to creep in, because we now have legitimate game questions mixed with "how do I program" questions.
I realize that you have to start someplace, and in my experience, I learned from day one, making "Hello World" programs, and not full blown isometric RPG games with OGL or DX.
There is a major gap (almost like the baby boomers generation) that is beggining to creep in here.I am not saying don''t try, or it is impossible if you have no expereience, just, you should know the limitations you have and look for the best solutions for them, rather then putting them on a heap that doesn''t really relate to what you are asking.
I''d rather have other people judging if I''m a newbie or not, but I think I can say I''m not...
I have no problems with newbies. I also was a newbie once, like everybody else! You have to start somewhere. It''s a good thing to respect people who think about the same things. This should be a friendly, respected and intelligent place to be...!
And: If there''s nobody who knows less - there''s nobody who knows more!
I have no problems with newbies. I also was a newbie once, like everybody else! You have to start somewhere. It''s a good thing to respect people who think about the same things. This should be a friendly, respected and intelligent place to be...!
And: If there''s nobody who knows less - there''s nobody who knows more!
Jus' my opinion but...
What the hell is with all the pseudo-help-wanted posts in the design forum? I AM a newbie and I know not to put that crap in there. Clutter!
Thank you for your time...
Edited by - landfish on May 21, 2000 12:08:09 AM
What the hell is with all the pseudo-help-wanted posts in the design forum? I AM a newbie and I know not to put that crap in there. Clutter!
Thank you for your time...
Edited by - landfish on May 21, 2000 12:08:09 AM
Forget newbies corner, experts corner. You''d have to pass a test to gain acces, and no VB crap, pure CPP.
Doesn''t help the non-coder parts of the forum. I know you guys tend to frown upon people like me, but please, don''t condemn me to the newbie part of the page just ''cause the code doesn''t speak to me! I did study you know... =)
I LOVE this site...
I LOVE this site...
Okay, there seems to be a problem with the logic in here.
If you post in this forum then it seems to me that,
A) you are a newbie at something, or else you wouldnt need to ask questions in this forum.
B) You know everything, so you are just here to answer the questions of those people that fit description A.
So what''s the problem? The problem is that you are tagging people with a term that you haven''t fully defined. Newbie.
Are the newbies the ones in here asking stupid questions? No. Those are stupid people. Should we have a stupid people forum? No, we should just ignore those posts. Is this a new problem that Felonius has just discovered? No, this has been a problem in every forum since the inception of the internet. Forums are for people who need information. Newbies by definition, are those people. Forums, therefore, are for newbies. If you don''t like this fact, then open up vi, or notepad throw together some HTML and create your own advanced users forum. Or wait, maybe you''re a newbie and don''t know how to do that.
Cmon people, wake up.
If you post in this forum then it seems to me that,
A) you are a newbie at something, or else you wouldnt need to ask questions in this forum.
B) You know everything, so you are just here to answer the questions of those people that fit description A.
So what''s the problem? The problem is that you are tagging people with a term that you haven''t fully defined. Newbie.
Are the newbies the ones in here asking stupid questions? No. Those are stupid people. Should we have a stupid people forum? No, we should just ignore those posts. Is this a new problem that Felonius has just discovered? No, this has been a problem in every forum since the inception of the internet. Forums are for people who need information. Newbies by definition, are those people. Forums, therefore, are for newbies. If you don''t like this fact, then open up vi, or notepad throw together some HTML and create your own advanced users forum. Or wait, maybe you''re a newbie and don''t know how to do that.
Cmon people, wake up.
I have noticed that many of the "newbies" on gamedev are actually experienced programmers, just not in the game development field. I myself had no concept of how to do a blit, how 3D math worked, how bsp worked(still lost on that one ), etc. Now I have programmed databases professionally for about a year and a half, I know 5 different programming languages, and yet in the games business, I am still a "newbie". I try to learn, and if I get flamed by someone who thinks that they are so much better than me, I try to come up with some response (or just ignore the immature ones). You can never get rid of all the newbies, that would be like saying "well if we teach everone Calculus, we will never have to teach it to anyone again". People die, people are born.
Etnu
What is a man without goals? A dead man.
), etc. Now I have programmed databases professionally for about a year and a half, I know 5 different programming languages, and yet in the games business, I am still a "newbie". I try to learn, and if I get flamed by someone who thinks that they are so much better than me, I try to come up with some response (or just ignore the immature ones). You can never get rid of all the newbies, that would be like saying "well if we teach everone Calculus, we will never have to teach it to anyone again". People die, people are born.Etnu
What is a man without goals? A dead man.
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