From Classical Radiosity to ...

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114 comments, last by HellRaiZer 20 years, 11 months ago
quote:Original post by davepermen
so, for you, a simple photo is gi as well? for me, only the nature generating it does the gi, the photo is just a pic with colors. gi for me == algorithm that generates the lighting. gi for you == the visual end. both fine. what ever..

Wouldn''t a simple photo be GI if it was being used to light some geometry (image based lighting)?

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quote:Original post by Impossible
Wouldn''t a simple photo be GI if it was being used to light some geometry (image based lighting)?


now THATS impossible!! (if we''re at name-fiddling, we''re now REALLY at name-fiddling, hehe, not, impossible? :D)

"take a look around" - limp bizkit
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If that's not the help you're after then you're going to have to explain the problem better than what you have. - joanusdmentia

My Page davepermen.net | My Music on Bandcamp and on Soundcloud

daveperman, i read the paper you mentioned. You said "they are using athlons 1800+, what about p4 3.06?". If i understood right, from what i read in it, they aren''t just using athlons. Thay are using 3 - 12 athlons, from which, 1 is the master machine (server, were the output goes), and n-1 clients to compute all this. And it is 2 - 5 fps. This is not real-time. I don''t say that they don''t do a good work, because this must be difficult, but this algorithm is good only for NASA''s computers!!!!!!!!! And don''t forget that the real-time output isn''t the greatest, if you compare it with the converged one!!! And, with this, you can''t have other things, like antialiasing, etc. And if you saw it, in all screenshots aliasing is very (how you say it???) obvious!!!

HellRaiZer

PS. Yann, please post those links...
HellRaiZer
And they are not common athlons. Thay are AthlonMP 64-bit processors. I don''t know if P4 3.06 can make it better!!!!!

HellRaiZer
HellRaiZer
athlon MP? really?

well then..

anyways, i like their work, hehe. it''s at least fully scalable (they have an RT2 demo, wich is 3 years newer, or so.. quite fun to watch the stuff!)

but yes, its a bit far away..

its at least very scalable.. and thats of course a Good Thing (tm) :D

"take a look around" - limp bizkit
www.google.com
If that's not the help you're after then you're going to have to explain the problem better than what you have. - joanusdmentia

My Page davepermen.net | My Music on Bandcamp and on Soundcloud

quote:
Yann: http://www.donw.co.uk/home/downloads/SHTest.zip - SH rotation code using Ivanic/Ruedenberg algorithm. Full references provided.

Thanks AP, much appreciated. I''ll take a closer look at those rotations tonight.

quote:
Yann can you post those links you mentioned earlier, please?

Yeah, I''ve been very busy the last couple of days. OK, before going anywhere into more advanced solutions, you should make sure you perfectly understand the mathematical principles behind radiosity: the basic GI equation, the simplifications used for the diffuse interreflection model, differential angles and patches, form factors, etc.

That Hugo Elias thing is nice as a quick start, but if you want to dive deeper, you should try to get an accurate ''real'' solver running first. You can then extend it to accomodate various other types of algorithms, always comparing their visual results and performance to your reference implementation. The implementation can be a full matrix solver, or a very basic progressive shooter. I''d suggest trying it on a standarized scene, such as the Cornell box. You can easily use the precise data sets to verify the proper functioning and quality of your system, as well as compare it with other solvers.

Once you have the thing running, the next step would surely be an iterative solution, in order to improve performance and reduce the memory requirements. I''d suggest trying progressive refinement (PR) radiosity next. Several different approaches for PR radiosity exist. You should try a maximum energy shooting approach, with implicit ambient term. That''s pretty much the industry standard: very good quality, and more or less fast. The form factors can either be determined by raytracing (best), hemicubes (fast) or other (hybrid) approaches. Test a few different methods, and compare the results. This will give you a ''feeling'' for the various algorithms.

From here on, you can start playing with probabilistic solutions, such as (Quasi-) Monte Carlo radiosity. Again, lots of different variants exist. A very advanced form is wavelet radiosity. Interesting in theory, although not that useful in reality. You should be very confident with your math before attempting this one.

Practically all advanced radiosity algorithms are presented in the form of (math-heavy) academic research papers. Here is a short list, just Google for the exact title match. Some might require an ACM account, I''m not entirely sure.

Radiosity introduction:
"Introduction to Global Illumination" by Paul Heckbert
"Analysis of Radiosity Techniques in Computer Graphics" by Bernard Kwok
"An Empirical Comparison of Radiosity Algorithms" by Paul Heckbert et al.

Iterative and Monte Carlo solutions:
"Iterative Methods for fast Radiosity Solutions" by Shirley, Baranoski, Bramley
"Hierarchical Monte Carlo Radiosity For General Environments" by Pérez et al.
"Hierarchical Monte Carlo Radiosity" by Bekaert, Neumann et al.

Form factors by hemicubes:
"Anti-Aliased Hemicubes for Radiosity" by Chandran, Kiran, Phani
"Fast Texture Based Form Factor Calculations for Radiosity using Graphics Hardware" by Nielsen, Christensen

Wavelets:
"Wavelet Radiosity" by Gortler, Schröder, Cohen

This should get you started. Also have a look at this forum''s FAQ, I have collected a few related links there.

While you''re at it, don''t forget to take a deep look into high dynamic range (HDR) imaging. Radiosity and HDR are tightly interleaved, and a good HDR remapper (exposure) is absolutely vital to get a pleasing visual result from a radiosity solution.

Last but not least, if you need some example code, take a look at Fluid studio''s radiosity processor. A nice basic PR solver, comes with full source.
Yann thanks a lot. From the papers you mentioned, i had them all except from the introductory papers. I read them a little and i think that finally i'll do something. Thanks again.

I have much reading in front of me!!!!!

Btw, what do you mean, by
quote:
"Once you have the thing running..."

?????

How can i have something running when i'm trying to learn those things??? You mean, others work????

Thanks again.

HellRaiZer

[edited by - HellRaiZer on June 13, 2003 3:02:48 AM]
HellRaiZer
quote:Original post by HellRaiZer
How can i have something running when i''m trying to learn those things??? You mean, others work????


he means learning by doing...

"take a look around" - limp bizkit
www.google.com
If that's not the help you're after then you're going to have to explain the problem better than what you have. - joanusdmentia

My Page davepermen.net | My Music on Bandcamp and on Soundcloud

Ok, thanks.

HellRaiZer
HellRaiZer
Can''t find Kwok''s master thesis : "Analysis of Radiosity Techniques in Computer Graphics".

Does anyone have a link ?

Thanks !

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