Pirating and AbandonWare
Visual C++ is one of the cheapest compilers on the market with the best support and toolset available.
Try spending thousands of dollars on embedded system compilers that don't properly support C++!
.. and yeah, I know, VC++ doesn't properly support C++ so don't bother starting THAT argument. By not supporting C++ I mean compilers that don't support C++ at all.
[edited by - Sphet on July 18, 2003 7:54:11 PM]
Try spending thousands of dollars on embedded system compilers that don't properly support C++!
.. and yeah, I know, VC++ doesn't properly support C++ so don't bother starting THAT argument. By not supporting C++ I mean compilers that don't support C++ at all.
[edited by - Sphet on July 18, 2003 7:54:11 PM]
I''ve always used piracy as a form of an extended demo. Alot of games have really fun demo''s. Take for example, Soldier of Fortune 2. The demo was alot of fun, and I was worried that the gameplay might be lost in the real game, so I downloaded it. Fortunately the whole game was even more fun so I went out and bought it.. its still sitting in my room in its shrink wrap.
Then there are games like Dungeon Siege which seem to have a kind of fun demo. I had hopes the rest of the game might not be so linear. I download the game, and it turns out the rest of the game is just as linear as the demo, so I remove it and don''t purchase the game. If it weren''t for having the ability to try the whole game, I might have wasted $50 on a game I would not have enjoyed.
I think alot of people try to follow this model, but many tend to fail on the second step... buying the game. I believe this is what ''piracy'' and ''cracking'' was originally intended for. Just look on the readme of any cracking group''s cracks (Ie- Myth). They will always suggest purchasing the game if you like it, most likely because the game was cracked by programmers as well.. in a bit of strange irony.
Then there are games like Dungeon Siege which seem to have a kind of fun demo. I had hopes the rest of the game might not be so linear. I download the game, and it turns out the rest of the game is just as linear as the demo, so I remove it and don''t purchase the game. If it weren''t for having the ability to try the whole game, I might have wasted $50 on a game I would not have enjoyed.
I think alot of people try to follow this model, but many tend to fail on the second step... buying the game. I believe this is what ''piracy'' and ''cracking'' was originally intended for. Just look on the readme of any cracking group''s cracks (Ie- Myth). They will always suggest purchasing the game if you like it, most likely because the game was cracked by programmers as well.. in a bit of strange irony.
quote:Original post by Ice-T
Companies like Microsoft and Sony hike up their prices to such ridiculous amounts to keep their profits up. With everybody using Windows more and more, our dependency on their products are increasing. And if these companies continue to do this, we can expect much higher prices. Besides, what does Visual C++ have in it that can make it cost so much more than any other compiler? A cure for cancer?
That is a poor argument for pirating. If tons of people start pirating a given piece of software, what do you think will happen? It's surely not going to drop prices if high price concerns is what you have. Just admit it: You are only trying to find a cop out excuse of any kind you can grab to try and justify stealing. An eye for an eye never makes a sound argument.
[edited by - nervo on July 18, 2003 8:13:03 PM]
I have no pirated software whatsoever on my computer and I don''t see any real reason to want to pirate software. There are open source programs that do most of what I need.
quote:Original post by Ice-T
Companies like Microsoft and Sony hike up their prices to such ridiculous amounts to keep their profits up. With everybody using Windows more and more, our dependency on their products are increasing. And if these companies continue to do this, we can expect much higher prices. Besides, what does Visual C++ have in it that can make it cost so much more than any other compiler? A cure for cancer?
- The MSDN online library is free*.
- The Knowledge Base, technical articles etc are free*.
- The Platform SDK is free*.
- The DirectX SDK is free*.
- You get contributions (i.e. tech support) from MS employees on newsgroups, boards like this etc for free*.
- You get all the products you use extensively beta tested for free.
- You get ongoing product updates and fixes for free (service packs etc).
[*]<br><br><br>Now all of those things require 100s of staff to be paid professional salaries, office space, resources etc even though they're all being given away for free. Where does the money come from? - the answer is from sales of the products that the free support and resources are for (i.e. MSVC, Windows etc).<br><br>MSVC is cheap compared to many other professional development environments!.<br><br>I'd also suggest you take a look at high end business software and bespoke systems and see how much is charged for ongoing support packages (hint: imagine buying a new copy of MSVC every month)<br><br>BTW: MS haven't really hiked their prices up at all. If anything MSVC for a similar amount of stuff is now <b>cheaper </b> than it was 9-10 years ago. And of course basic economics <br><br>If you're in school/college/university, you can get the learning edition of MSVC for a very cheap price.<br><br>And of course there's nothing preventing you from using a free compiler such as GCC or OpenWatcom - to develop for Windows combine that with the PSDK and online MSDN that's being <b>subsidised </b> by people who <b>bought </b> MSVC & Windows.<br><br><br>Also, which economics books have you been reading?, I don't quite see how an increase in sales ("With everybody using Windows more and more") leads to higher prices. Usually it leads to lower prices. And then there are the laws in most countries regarding what a monopoly is and isn't allowed to do… <br><br><SPAN CLASS=editedby>[edited by - s1ca on July 18, 2003 9:59:38 PM]</SPAN>
quote:Original post by S1CA
Also, which economics books have you been reading?, I don''t quite see how an increase in sales ("With everybody using Windows more and more") leads to higher prices. Usually it leads to lower prices. And then there are the laws in most countries regarding what a monopoly is and isn''t allowed to do...
I believe he was referring to the dependance on windows and office suites. If people have a demand for the products to support customers files that are coming over and stuff, then they will pay the price premium.
Companies don''t always follow the "laws" of economics either, things like piracy do have an impact, the more people that steal it, the more they have to charge to make a profit.
Pirating- There''s really nothing you can do to justify it, come on guys its stealing, bottom line. Back when you used to have to actually steal the software it was different, it was like phone phreaking, we knew it was stealing but wwe also knew it didnt hurt the companies there were too few of us, they had ''acceptance losses'' in their budgets b4 we showed up. But nowadays it isnt hackers using their skills to get programs just because they can, they have the skills and its a contest and they won, now its john q on kazaa dling everything he even thinks about wanting.
Abandonware- Am i mistaken in believing that is legal? as long as it is 5+ yrs old and no longer sold by the Intellectual Property owner then its legal right? unless they spefically say, ''no don''t sell it''. otherwise its assumed to be ''abandoned'' by the publisher. i thik The-underdogs.org has more on the subject, and im sure they wouldnt b around if it was illegal, maybe ROMs are different though.
fastjack
Fastjack@hackermail.com
Abandonware- Am i mistaken in believing that is legal? as long as it is 5+ yrs old and no longer sold by the Intellectual Property owner then its legal right? unless they spefically say, ''no don''t sell it''. otherwise its assumed to be ''abandoned'' by the publisher. i thik The-underdogs.org has more on the subject, and im sure they wouldnt b around if it was illegal, maybe ROMs are different though.
fastjack
Fastjack@hackermail.com
I don''t know if you are old enough to remember a computer system called the Amiga. I have one and it was YEARS beyond anything available at the time. It had a windowing GUI when MS-DOS was still the dominate operating system for pcs.
It had great graphics, great sound, etc., but it died. Why? Rampant piracy killed it. Companies saw that they couldn''t make any money developing software so they stopped. (I do believe that the Amiga still has a following in Europe, but its dead in the US).
Piracy is bad, bad, bad. I assume that you come to this board because you are an indie developer or you are an aspiring one. How can you create a game using illegal software and then expect someone to pay for your software?
Given the explosion in open source projects, there are free alternatives to just about everything a game developer needs. IDEs, compilers, 2d & 3d art, office suites, etc. are available and mature enough for productive work.
I don''t agree with your abandonware argument either. Like many others have stated, those games could later be used on systems like the GBA and cell phones.
A second reason I disagree with your stance is that those games in and of themselves may be worth $2 retail, but they contain value in their franchise. Using your Mario example, it''s a property that still have tremendouse value today. Every new Nintendo system comes with Mario game and now they have that off shoot property Wario. If gamers were allowed to do as pleased with those old games, it could have an impact on the value/merit of the franchise.
It had great graphics, great sound, etc., but it died. Why? Rampant piracy killed it. Companies saw that they couldn''t make any money developing software so they stopped. (I do believe that the Amiga still has a following in Europe, but its dead in the US).
Piracy is bad, bad, bad. I assume that you come to this board because you are an indie developer or you are an aspiring one. How can you create a game using illegal software and then expect someone to pay for your software?
Given the explosion in open source projects, there are free alternatives to just about everything a game developer needs. IDEs, compilers, 2d & 3d art, office suites, etc. are available and mature enough for productive work.
I don''t agree with your abandonware argument either. Like many others have stated, those games could later be used on systems like the GBA and cell phones.
A second reason I disagree with your stance is that those games in and of themselves may be worth $2 retail, but they contain value in their franchise. Using your Mario example, it''s a property that still have tremendouse value today. Every new Nintendo system comes with Mario game and now they have that off shoot property Wario. If gamers were allowed to do as pleased with those old games, it could have an impact on the value/merit of the franchise.
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