Players as monsters in MMORPGs
Author
I answered a post in
Redesigning RPGs! on this forum and I have decided to create a thread on this topic.
I have been suggesting a way to allow players to play as "monsters" in our _in design_ MMORPG. This role has traditionaly been an NPC, but, by allowing players to become these creatures you can justify PKing. I''m not sure that it would be PKing, because the other player is a monster and players wouldn''t know if it was an NPC (we would still have NPC monsters) or a PC.
What are some of you thoughts on this ideal?
Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser
It's something that needs to be done. The one thing I'm thinking, though, is that your going to need some way to keep the number of monsters in check. If the monster population grows out of control then it could ruin the other players experience.
Here's some ideas on how to do that:
1) Characters in the minority group become stronger to balance things out. So if there are a ton of monsters, then heroes will be much stronger, and vice-versa.
2) Maybe players become monsters based off their actions. So a player might start as a human, and continually grow more and more grotesque and evil as because of his actions. (actually, I'm not sure if this would solve anything, but I really like the idea
)
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Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant and she fell on me? Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny.
Edited by - The Senshi on July 5, 2000 2:11:22 PM
Here's some ideas on how to do that:
1) Characters in the minority group become stronger to balance things out. So if there are a ton of monsters, then heroes will be much stronger, and vice-versa.
2) Maybe players become monsters based off their actions. So a player might start as a human, and continually grow more and more grotesque and evil as because of his actions. (actually, I'm not sure if this would solve anything, but I really like the idea
)----------------------------------------
Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant and she fell on me? Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny.
Edited by - The Senshi on July 5, 2000 2:11:22 PM
Author
quote:Original post by The Senshi
+snip+
2) Maybe players become monsters based off their actions. So a player might start as a human, and continually grow more and more grotesque and evil as because of his actions.
I like this ideal alot.
There has to be some reason for the player to _behave_. If they were to become a monster, which would take them out of the normal loop of play, then this would be a very good incentive.
Would this be irreversable? Or could the player somehow become "human" (or whatever race they were(if you have other races)) again?
quote:
(actually, I''m not sure if this would solve anything, but I really like the idea
+snip+
Being a monster would remove the player from the normal game loop... they couln''t go into town, they would be the hunted, any player could kill them, as well as other NPC monsters
SO, I think it could be a way to handle players of this type.
Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser
Hmm, I think the effect should be permanent. It provides a really cool opportunity for roleplaying. You'll actually see monster communities rise up! Hell, maybe they could even organize village raids (*evil grin*).
As you can tell, I like the idea of raiding villages.
If it's not permanent, though, it should at least be really hard to reverse. Maybe you have to go on some sort of horribly difficult quest or something.
In any case, the effects should be hard to get rid of, otherwise they're just a slap on the wrist. And IMHO one of the most important things for roleplaying is real consequences for your actions.
Of course, we should also apply this in the opposite fashion. If your character is really heroic and good, the monsters should notice him a bit more. But the player should also be rewarded for his reputation by shop keepers, etc.
In other words:
Monster: allows you to kill things without consequences, you can do all sorts of village raids and what not. Also justifies player killing. Bad thing is that you become an outcast.
Hero: gain favor with people and shopkeepers, but at the price of higher visibility to monsters.
Of course, players becoming monsters should have some sort of control over how there monsterishness develops
. In fact, this would allow for you to make player classes without some sort of artificial "choose your player class" system at the start.
----------------------------------------
Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant and she fell on me? Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny.
Edited by - The Senshi on July 5, 2000 3:02:18 PM
As you can tell, I like the idea of raiding villages
.If it's not permanent, though, it should at least be really hard to reverse. Maybe you have to go on some sort of horribly difficult quest or something
.In any case, the effects should be hard to get rid of, otherwise they're just a slap on the wrist. And IMHO one of the most important things for roleplaying is real consequences for your actions.
Of course, we should also apply this in the opposite fashion. If your character is really heroic and good, the monsters should notice him a bit more. But the player should also be rewarded for his reputation by shop keepers, etc.
In other words:
Monster: allows you to kill things without consequences, you can do all sorts of village raids and what not. Also justifies player killing. Bad thing is that you become an outcast.
Hero: gain favor with people and shopkeepers, but at the price of higher visibility to monsters.
Of course, players becoming monsters should have some sort of control over how there monsterishness develops
. In fact, this would allow for you to make player classes without some sort of artificial "choose your player class" system at the start. ----------------------------------------
Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant and she fell on me? Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny.
Edited by - The Senshi on July 5, 2000 3:02:18 PM
Hey I just wanted to say I really liked your ideas. What kind of game would this be in? Isometric, FPS, RPG, etc. Or is this just in general.
--klown
It''s go time.
--klown
It''s go time.
Author
quote:Original post by klown
Hey I just wanted to say I really liked your ideas. What kind of game would this be in? Isometric, FPS, RPG, etc. Or is this just in general.
--klown
It''s go time.
My focous is a MMORPG in this instance. I''m sure it would work just as well in an RPG. FPS''s do not deem someone evil because they have "knocked someone off"
so, I''m not sure it would work... but, I could be wrong.Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser
(landfish arrives in cognito...)
(I use goblin as a generic term for monster. Sorry)
Um, yeah. It really is the next logical step in MMORPG. If there''s a player behind every goblin, goblins will hence be much harder to kill. Like, not worth killing, unless you''ve got a damn good reason. Combine this with goblins having a different economy (i.E. bone money, or something useless to humans) and all of a sudden you''ve killed leveling!
But you haven''t killed the rivalry between the two... by no means.
This would only really work in a final death situation. If goblins are portrayed as expendable, they will be. So when the character dies, they DIE. The family then holds a funeral, and revenge is taken. The player makes another character. So be it.
(Scampers off before anyone catches him posting to GDNet...)
(I use goblin as a generic term for monster. Sorry)
Um, yeah. It really is the next logical step in MMORPG. If there''s a player behind every goblin, goblins will hence be much harder to kill. Like, not worth killing, unless you''ve got a damn good reason. Combine this with goblins having a different economy (i.E. bone money, or something useless to humans) and all of a sudden you''ve killed leveling!
But you haven''t killed the rivalry between the two... by no means.
This would only really work in a final death situation. If goblins are portrayed as expendable, they will be. So when the character dies, they DIE. The family then holds a funeral, and revenge is taken. The player makes another character. So be it.
(Scampers off before anyone catches him posting to GDNet...)
Author
quote:
Hmm, I think the effect should be permanent. It provides a really cool opportunity for roleplaying. You''ll actually see monster communities rise up!
Hell, maybe they could even organize village raids (*evil grin*).
If the effect is permanent, and the change was caused by the player being _evil_ :p there should be some system in place that keeps these players in the game or coming back, even if they are less than desirable *Note: I only say this because most new games to include UO:Reniasance, have non-PK areas and it seems
to be a less than ideal way to handle the issue, at least to me.
Hehe, this could be very disruptive to the economy if not handled properly.
I do agree, it could be fun... which is why I suggest the ability to be a monster when you start the game. This would save some poor souls from being PKed in the event a player decides to become a monster.
quote:
If it''s not permanent, though, it should at least be really hard to reverse.
Maybe you have to go on some sort of horribly difficult quest or something
In any case, the effects should be hard to get rid of, otherwise they''re just a
slap on the wrist. And IMHO one of the most important things for roleplaying is
real consequences for your actions.
I suppose the real question is, does a player who has anti-social behavior deserve to change back. If the metamorphosis is a defined progression of changes, in which the player changes each time they have killed another player and the character ignores them, then he can''t change back.
If during the change he decides to "change for the better" then he has a to perform a quest or meet some requirements, in order to revert.
I prefer to allow them to revert at any time before the full metamorphosis has taken place.
Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser
Author
quote:Original post by Landfish
(landfish arrives in cognito...)
(I use goblin as a generic term for monster. Sorry)
Um, yeah. It really is the next logical step in MMORPG. If there''s a player behind every goblin, goblins will hence be much harder to kill. Like, not worth killing, unless you''ve got a damn good reason. Combine this with goblins having a different economy (i.E. bone money, or something useless to humans) and all of a sudden you''ve killed leveling!
But you haven''t killed the rivalry between the two... by no means.
This would only really work in a final death situation. If goblins are portrayed as expendable, they will be. So when the character dies, they DIE. The family then holds a funeral, and revenge is taken. The player makes another character. So be it.
(Scampers off before anyone catches him posting to GDNet...)
Ummm, did I miss something... why are you in cognito
At any rate...
I think your right about the monsters being harder to kill. That is something I didn''t even think about yet, but your right. Of course the player would have to start from zero again. Any skills that the player has acquired during his play as a "human" is useless.
Maybe when the character (as a monster) is dead, he doesn''t die, but is transformed back into the character that he started as. With all attributes as they were when he started.
Oh, well off to play Diablo II
Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser
Dak Lozar:
Landfish? What Landfish? I didn''t see a Landfish...
"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." --William Blake
Landfish? What Landfish? I didn''t see a Landfish...
"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." --William Blake
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