actully you know what dak. See one of my friends that is with us has an uncle who makes games for a living, well he did, but he''s very experienced and is helping us. Point being you should get Linux for the server for many reasons. WINDOWS SUCKS and for some reason i still use it :p but i use windows 2000 which yes is also stable but i''m having problems with winsock in it! Linux is really much more stables then any windows out there. Also Linux allows for easy remote administration! Everything you can do locally you can do remotely, so if you guys live away from the server and it crashes, you can easily bring it back up.

tcs: Im quite knowledgable in networking, infact I have dont quite alot of networking both in Windows and Linux. I also have been programming for years, although it seems alot of people here are really new.

all: You really shouldnt start with a MMORPG as a first project, I wrote several dozen single player games before even thinking of writing a basic multiplayer game. If you cant write a very good sinle player game or dont know the basics of c/c++, directx, advanced game techniques/optimizations/tricks then why bother making an mmorpg.

hybris: The main loop is fairly simple in most network servers, it firstly checks for incoming connections, then services all connections/sockets/hosts if they need reading/writing. In a game you might need to incorperate parts of your main loop into the server such as movement for monsters, ai, and anything that happens that dosent require a message from the client to be triggered.

all: No offence people, but you need to really slow down and learn how to use the language well (master the language even) before you can think of doing things as advanced as what your talking about. If your lucky your server might have 5/6 people on at once but seriosly you cant expect to get thousands of people. It will take time, stop planning for so many players, instead limit your player base and use what resources you can to provide the best you can do a small amount of players.

When I see people saying they want 10 thousand people to use their server at once, I go about wondering where will they find all these people. Even if you have hundreds or thousands of people, that doesnt mean they will play at once. There are alot, and I mean ALOT of considerations/problems to solve if you have more than 400 or so on at the same time. Windows has alot of limits in the kernel that limit sockets, you will most likely have to use udp. Windows threading can get screwed up alot, you can have memory curruption. Id actually suggest linux, its an extremely good operating system that is designed from the ground up for networking. Its like all unixes and its quite secure, its the most secure unix however. If your looking for a server that is nearly impossible to hack then you should get FreeBSD. I heard it is good. Also, id suggest against using DirectPlay, it simply just handles too much for you. An MMORPG server needs more control over the socket and underlying layours, DirectPlay handles too much and its unportable to anything but windows.

MMORPG''s are very complex, there are many issues in its development, how will you handle lag, saving player data, collision detection, artificial intellegence, player movement, and the most toughest problem keeping the client/server synched.. If you dont even know how to open, write or close a file then you certainly will have alot of trouble getting a MMORPG programmed.

If your first networking project is a MMORPG you very likely wont ever finish it. I wrote a telnet chat server as my first program to use WinSock. I learned alot and I got it finish mostly apart from some features that arent work using.

CorsairK8

Corrections:

...infact I have DONE quite alot of networking...

...secure, its NOT the most secure unix however. If...

quote:Original post by kalldrex

actully you know what dak. See one of my friends that is with us has an uncle who makes games for a living, well he did, but he''s very experienced and is helping us. Point being you should get Linux for the server for many reasons. WINDOWS SUCKS and for some reason i still use it :p but i use windows 2000 which yes is also stable but i''m having problems with winsock in it! Linux is really much more stables then any windows out there. Also Linux allows for easy remote administration! Everything you can do locally you can do remotely, so if you guys live away from the server and it crashes, you can easily bring it back up.

I don''t get your point... Your friends uncle was in the game industry...so what. I was too, my first professional job was with a game company.... I now work as a contractor and a few colleagues and I have started our own entertainment company...

My point was simple... and based on fact, NT works really well when you spend the money on stable hardware. Yours was based on irrelevant arguments.

A few years ago when I was mainly developing for the Amiga, I would have been the first one to say Windows sucks. But after 5 years of working with AIX Unix and Windows NT - NT wins hands down.

Things that make NT nicer to work with (in no order):
Support (where is your support for Linux?)
Development Tools (and the support of these tools)
User base (as for now... this may change)
and probably a few other reasons.

We are looking at other OSes to run our servers on. Windows Data Center might be a good choice or even QNX - we will be doing some research to aid in our decission. When we do make a decission it will be based on the facts that WE have discovered and not on our feelings.

I don''t really want to argue with you - I am merely pointing out that if you are going to argue - please base your arguments on logical facts and not based on illogical emotions.


Game On,
David[Dak LozarLoeserElysian Productions, Inc

Kalldrex...
"Win"sock was written for "Win"dows so if Winsock isn''t working for you, it''s not Windows'' fault.

Dak...
I have Windows 2000 Professional setup with ICS and everything works great. I can log on with a Win98 machine and access folders on the 2k Pro machine. I can also surf the net with any computer hooked up to the hub.

What I''m trying to do is beable to run my game server on any computer hooked up to the network and beable to access it over the net. Do you know how to set permissions to do that?

When I had ICS running with WinME I had no problems. I may switch back to WinME as the main connection and firewall but I''d rather use Win2k. Every computer on the network is running a secondary firewall so I''m not worried about security too much.

If my site is down, I''m working on the connection thing. I havn''t had any issues with WinME or Win2k. It''s just been hardware if anything.

Ben
http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com

@Dak: Think about your arguments yourself. A huge user base is no reason to opt for an OS.

It''s true that Windows is just far more user friendly than anything else out there. However, this user-friendliness is based on hiding options away from users. Now when I set up something as critical as a server or a router, I want to have every piece of control I can get. That''s where Unix wins.

I also have to argue about the support thing. IMHO Microsoft doesn''t give you much support. Phone lines are either expensive or useless, the help files shipped with Windows are simply ridiculous (check out the entry on "How to move the taskbar" in Win98 as an example). Most of the things I learnt about Windows was from books or other third-party help (friends at the beginning, later the inet), and while Windows support might win a tiny bit in this area, it''s definitely not by much.

Just don''t confuse support with user-friendliness.

cu,
Prefect

---
Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind.