Quote:Original post by brent_w
I saw him start out with a good attitude. Additionally I saw, from InnocuousFox's very first surprisingly condescending sentence, that attitude slowly worn away by unnecessarily negative responses from a number of individuals.
And I found your assertion, that it was in fact the original poster who was responsible for the negativity, so ironic I felt the need to address it.
Ya know... I'm catching a lot of heat for this thread which I find a bit disturbing. If you actually read the thread from page 1 to 4 rather than backwards, you see that I didn't take this south at all. My only mistake on the whole first page was my first line:
Quote:And thus we see why game degrees from institutions are received with a raised eyebrow from the AI programmers.
... Which is actually a link to a post that Damian Isla (and he is a reasonable authority on the subject you would think?) made about this very subject. It was not only relevant but timely since this thread came out shortly thereafter. Notice that it wasn't even MY freaking opinion? It was pointing out (even by an example) what the friction is with the industry responding to game degree grads not having the proper skills.
Other than that, nothing in that first post was negative aside from reiterating the 2nd posters warning about potential disturbances. I even answered his questions line by line.
Note that this was reacted to thusly:
Quote:To be honest I was expecting a reply like this.
[snip]
I find this comment a little rude.
[snip]
...can I remind people ...?
[snip]
I guess I may be expecting a little too much from a forum...
Note that the attitude is getting a little obnoxious?
My next reply was a simple (and innocuous) answer about how designers would view not having control.
In my next reply, my only real negative was when he got a little presumptuous by saying "
but not 1 person has backed it up with fact or proof" to which I replied "
You are the one doing the research paper, not the people replying here. Exhibit A is the past 30 years of the industry." I even pointed out that it was largely impossible to "prove" that NNs are not suitable for games. Was that rude or simply pointing out that people are likely unwilling to do his research for him?
The only other posts of mine on that page were replying to other people about the technical merits of NNs and why they don't work in games really well... which IS what the topic was, right?
And, on page 2, he stated:
Quote:So, the conclusion is that almost everyone in the industry hates NN's but academics love them :-) at least until they enter the industry.
Which is why I referred back to my initial line:
Quote:And now we have come full circle to my original comment regarding how the industry greets someone from academia - especially a student - with skepticism. Visit my link on that exact comment...
Admittedly,
this is where I lost it... when he said:
Quote:Truth is academia is there to encourage innovation. I'm sorry but anyone can work in a factory pushing out the same product one after the other, but it takes academics to say "Hey wait, surely this can be done better?".
[snip]
If everyone's attitude is that we have found the best solution then there will never be an advancement in this domain.
To which I replied...
Quote:This is such a load of arrogant crap it is bordering on invalidating the usefulness of this entire thread and disqualifying you from further consideration on any relevant subject matter. 99% of the innovation in the modern world has come from outside academia. In the games industry, much the same can be said.
[snip]
Who is this "everyone" of which you speak? Every single time I sit down to work on my stuff, I'm trying to do something better. Every time I crack open the new AI Wisdom book, I see something from a front line dude that makes me say "damn... someone found a better way" - and usually it was because they were trying to solve a problem in their own projects. (You have read all the AI Wisdom books, right?)
The reason I did this is because, by this point, it was becoming obvious to me that he was completely prepared to piss on any statement that came from the non-academic industry. His whole attitude was oozing superiority and condescension on anything that came out of non-ivy-covered walls. And, it seemed, he was quite certain that he, himself, was part of the cutting edge elite while the rest of us industry schlubs could only gaze up at him on his pedestal. (Note: this is something that continued to trickle through the rest of this thread.)
Also, make note that this is the first time I lit off on this dude...
after he had been slinging this arrogance around like a flail... at the END of page 2. By this time, I wasn't the only one who had tried to steer him in the right direction and actually provide answers to his questions. He just didn't want to hear them and was prepared to get whiny and belligerent about it.
So, going back through the above... what the hell did I do wrong? If I didn't then quit using me as the poster child for bad thread etiquette.
