Quote:Original post by jackolantern1
Maybe the differences have to do with the field. In the US, there is more demand for educated and experienced software engineers than there is supply, which will obviously increase salaries. The balance between the two could very easily be different in other countries.

I think you're right.

As I've said before, UK universities are pumping out too many mediocre Java coders and "software engineers" as opposed to people with a wide range of skills in the IT workplace. As such, if you don't take postgraduate study, you're going to be working as a professional software developer or you'll be working in Tesco.

A balance needs to be struck somewhere.

Quote:Original post by ChurchSkiz
salary.com, enter your job and zip code, get the salary.

I would be kind of cautious with that site. When I was a manager in a telecomm business, one of my sales reps approached me with a big packet of info that he had apparently bought from salary.com. It included their statistics for what he was "supposed" to be making in our area, an article about how higher paid employees are better producing employees, etc. It said he should have been making about 70k + commissions (which was utterly ridiculous for the area we were in and his experience). He was making about half of that, and in reality, he was barely hanging on to his job as it was. Him handing in that packet was actually quite infuriating.

So be careful with that site. I don't know where they get their statistics from, but they were way off in this case. They are trying to make people feel like they should be getting more money so they buy the materials from them to show their bosses for a raise.

EDIT: This is the government's site with their salary census statistics. I would suggest to just stick with the info presented there.

Quote:Original post by jackolantern1
I would be kind of cautious with that site. When I was a manager in a telecomm business, one of my sales reps approached me with a big packet of info that he had apparently bought from salary.com. It included their statistics for what he was "supposed" to be making in our area, an article about how higher paid employees are better producing employees, etc. It said he should have been making about 70k + commissions (which was utterly ridiculous for the area we were in and his experience). He was making about half of that, and in reality, he was barely hanging on to his job as it was. Him handing in that packet was actually quite infuriating.

Following up on this, your salary is whatever you negotiate.

Salary IS NOT based on what you know, or what you have done, or what you are capable of. Companies do not need to pay you what you are worth, or pay you based on how much value you provide, or any other factor of your perceived value.

Honorable companies will pay you approximately what they feel is right, but it is still your job to negotiate what the actual value is. Dishonorable companies will pay you whatever they can get away with, right or not, and so you must protect yourself against them --- or better, don't work there.

It is your responsibility as the employee to come up with an estimate of what you are worth to the company. There are many sources of information with wildly different accuracy. Salary.com is one, the annual Game Developer Magazine's salary survey is another. Government sources are generally available, but still not perfect.

Having those sources are useful for starting your negotiation. Simply presenting a packet and demanding that much in pay is inappropriate. It is also generally inappropriate for professional level employees to allow the employer to set your wage without negotiation. (Obviously other jobs such as manual labor, burger flipping, etc., this does not apply.)

Ultimately it comes down to the individuals. The employee brings their skill set and experience to the bargaining table. The employer brings their total compensation package to the bargaining table. They sit down and talk.

If you can negotiate a 290K salary with a golden parachute, then do so. If you can negotiate a 50K salary, then do so. If you can only negotiate a small hourly wage with no other benefits, then do so.

Quote:Original post by frob

Quote:Original post by jackolantern1
I would be kind of cautious with that site. When I was a manager in a telecomm business, one of my sales reps approached me with a big packet of info that he had apparently bought from salary.com. It included their statistics for what he was "supposed" to be making in our area, an article about how higher paid employees are better producing employees, etc. It said he should have been making about 70k + commissions (which was utterly ridiculous for the area we were in and his experience). He was making about half of that, and in reality, he was barely hanging on to his job as it was. Him handing in that packet was actually quite infuriating.

Following up on this, your salary is whatever you negotiate.

Salary IS NOT based on what you know, or what you have done, or what you are capable of. Companies do not need to pay you what you are worth, or pay you based on how much value you provide, or any other factor of your perceived value.

Honorable companies will pay you approximately what they feel is right, but it is still your job to negotiate what the actual value is. Dishonorable companies will pay you whatever they can get away with, right or not, and so you must protect yourself against them --- or better, don't work there.

It is your responsibility as the employee to come up with an estimate of what you are worth to the company. There are many sources of information with wildly different accuracy. Salary.com is one, the annual Game Developer Magazine's salary survey is another. Government sources are generally available, but still not perfect.

Having those sources are useful for starting your negotiation. Simply presenting a packet and demanding that much in pay is inappropriate. It is also generally inappropriate for professional level employees to allow the employer to set your wage without negotiation. (Obviously other jobs such as manual labor, burger flipping, etc., this does not apply.)

Ultimately it comes down to the individuals. The employee brings their skill set and experience to the bargaining table. The employer brings their total compensation package to the bargaining table. They sit down and talk.

If you can negotiate a 290K salary with a golden parachute, then do so. If you can negotiate a 50K salary, then do so. If you can only negotiate a small hourly wage with no other benefits, then do so.

I completely agree. The only thing I would like to say is that negotiation typically comes into play for either educated or experienced positions, though. For uneducated positions, entry-level positions, it is quite likely that your salary is already determined before you walk in the door (should you take the job). I don't think that should really count against an employer in those situations. As a decision making employer at my old company, if an entry-level call center rep asked for an extra $2, I would have to talk to a director or the CEO, and the first thing they would ask is "Why?". If I have nothing to say besides, "He asked me", they will look at me crazy.

So I completely agree for positions where you do have some leverage, and you will be adding a unique element to the company, but in lower and entry positions, you are probably tied to what they are offering.

Quote:Original post by jackolantern1

Quote:Original post by ChurchSkiz
salary.com, enter your job and zip code, get the salary.

I would be kind of cautious with that site. When I was a manager in a telecomm business, one of my sales reps approached me with a big packet of info that he had apparently bought from salary.com. It included their statistics for what he was "supposed" to be making in our area, an article about how higher paid employees are better producing employees, etc. It said he should have been making about 70k + commissions (which was utterly ridiculous for the area we were in and his experience). He was making about half of that, and in reality, he was barely hanging on to his job as it was. Him handing in that packet was actually quite infuriating.

So be careful with that site. I don't know where they get their statistics from, but they were way off in this case. They are trying to make people feel like they should be getting more money so they buy the materials from them to show their bosses for a raise.

EDIT: This is the government's site with their salary census statistics. I would suggest to just stick with the info presented there.

At least in my field (Logistics) it's been pretty accurate. However, you can't just type in your title and get a salary, you have to look at the responsibilities. Titles can be grossly misleading from company to company so you need to hone down other information like how many direct reports you have, who you report to, size of the company, decision making capability, financial responsibilities, experience, education, etc. A "sales rep" could have a huge spread, I'm sure the person that did this was overexaggerating what they did.

HR divisions use this site just as much as employees so I wouldn't dismiss them so quickly from one bad experience.

Quote:Original post by Pete Michaud
I just want to echo the statement that you get what you are able to negotiate. When I first started (no college degree), I was making $75,000 in a cheap city, which is like $150,000 somewhere like the valley. Months later, I jumped ship to take a job at $125,000 in the same cheap city. It's about how you present yourself and your unique qualities to your employer. What do they get? Are you just a code monkey, or does your presence change the game for their business?

Marketing is about the story you tell to your customers, and the stories you help customers tell themselves. What story are you telling?

That's impressive for no degree! Have you no prior work history and a recent college drop out? How did you overcome all odds? You possess unique expert knowledge? Shortage of talent in the general area or within the company?