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[color="#1C2837"]By dilemma do you mean dichotomy? I didn't posit a dichotomy. I'm not sure what you're referring to here. There's no dichotomy at all in the quote you replied to. Could you clarify?
[color="#1C2837"]They are the same thing. You posited an implied dichotomy; the existence of a reward means not giving said reward is a punishment. This is a false dilemma.
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[color="#1C2837"]You must forgive me for not being intimately familiar with the literature of every Christian church on earth.[/quote]
[color="#1C2837"]It has nothing to do with being intimately familiar with anything. It has to do with being passively familiar with the core creed that is the base of all Christian faiths. Sorry if I expect someone arguing about the difference between the judgement and punishment of God to at least do the footwork to look into the general beliefs of the faiths being argued against.
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[color="#1C2837"]Furthermore, you do realize there are billions of Christians who are not Catholic and would disagree with you on specifically Catholic doctrine?
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You said that what I believed was a cop out. Now I back up what I believe and now you jump to the side and change the argument from, "what you believe is a cop out," to, "well what you believe isn't the same as what everyone believes." Seriously dude. You expect me to be able to argue against you, but you consistently change your argument to make it impossible.
And more than 50% of christian americans hold the belief that hell is exactly what I said (US news and world report).
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[color="#1C2837"]But if your beliefs perfectly coincide with what is written in said documents, we are in agreement indeed.
[color="#1C2837"]Furthermore, you do realize there are billions of Christians who are not Catholic and would disagree with you on specifically Catholic doctrine?
[color="#1C2837"][color="#1C2837"]"Catechism hell judgement"[color="#1C2837"][/quote]
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[color="#202020"][font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]So, we're in agreement.[/quote][/font]
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[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][color="#202020"]I'll quote the whole thing since you are so keen to pick and choose:[/font]
[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][color="#202020"][/font][color=#202020][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][/font][color=#202020][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2]1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.[sup]614[/sup] Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"[sup]615[/sup] and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"[sup]616[/sup]
[size=2][url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm"]1035
The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."[sup]617[/sup] The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
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1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."[sup]618[/sup]
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[size=1]Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."[sup]619[/sup]
<a href="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm" style="color: rgb(148, 128, 92); ">1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;[sup]620[/sup] for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":[sup]621[/quote][/sup]
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It never says God punishes anyone and specifically says that it is by your own choice that you will end up there.
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[color="#1C2837"]I'm not treating them as if they are any more relevant than any other verses. I just wanted your interpretation of their mentioning of hell.[/quote]
[color="#1C2837"]You are or you wouldn't have said, "[color=#1C2837][size=2]Unfortunately for you I am not so easily distracted. I will not indulge your desire to lead the conversation away from the points you have still refused to respond to," when I posted sources like you keep asking for. The fact that I posted extra stuff for you to read is no excuse to ignore all of them. Again, nothing will every be good enough for you.
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[color="#1C2837"]Here's another thing for you not to read.
[color="#1C2837"]http://www.explorefaith.org/punish.html
[color="#1C2837"]We do not see a God that punishes, but [color=#1C2837][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]rather a God that seeks to restore us to our full humanity. We see a God who is more interested in blessing than punishing, more inclined to raise up than strike down. Our human propensity to misuse power distorts our humanity, sometimes to the point where it is unrecognizable. The result of this separation from our full humanity—the humanity God created us to have—is that we suffer, and then we tend to call that suffering God's punishment rather than taking responsibility for it ourselves. It is not God who punishes us, it is we ourselves. As the cartoon character Pogo once put it, "We have met the enemy and they is us."[/quote][/font]
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[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Now I will deliver you the best metaphor for how God deals with hell. Had you merely read, comprehended, and retorted to the things I actually said rather than creating an argument that happens to be easy to contort into another argument making it impossible to argue against without the rules of formal debate I would gladly stay and discuss more with you; however your desire not to discuss but, rather, belittle a faith leave me no choice but to leave you here in the hell that is this thread.[/font]
