INTELLIGENCE - fact - genetics plays a huge part

INTELLIGENCE - fact - upbringing plays a huge part.


Take Einstein's kid and raise them in a sensory deprevation chamber and they'll be a vegetable. Take Cletus Delroy Spuckler's kid and raise them in a loving and nurturing environment that caters for their genetic disadvantages and they'll end up with an above average IQ.

Almost everything where we can say "that's genetic" is just a head-start or a slight handicap. The right environment can either overcome or reinforce these handicaps. The exceptions (the only truly genetic destiny) are obviously genetic diseases, which are extremely rare.

Intelligence, being smart, or being highly skilled are often far less important than putting in effort.
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I'm a strong believer that the moral of the fable of "The Tortoise and the Hare" is usually taught incorrectly (or perhaps more accurately incompletely) to children.

The story, in short for those who may not know it goes as follows:
[spoiler]A hare makes fun of a slow-moving tortoise, who then challenges the hare to a race.

Being much faster the hare as expected takes off and quickly gains a massive lead, while the tortoise very slowly plods along.

The hare is confident in his ability to win, and half way through the race decides to take a nap, sure that he will still easily win the race thanks to his superior speed.

Upon waking however the hare discovers that the slowly plodding tortoise has completed the race, thereby winning the contest.[/spoiler]

Now, as I've always heard it taught, the moral of this story is "slow but steady wins the race" -- which is of course not true in and of itself -- had the hare not stopped to take a nap there is no way the "slow but steady" approach of the tortoise would have resulted in victory.

A better lesson to take away from the story might be "don't be lazy" ; just because you have (or think you have) a strong natural ability in an area doesn't mean you will automatically succeed, you still need to put in the effort and apply that ability to find success. The other obvious lesson is that being less capable in a certain area does not automatically mean failure; if you apply yourself and put in the work you can often still succeed. Furthermore, had the tortoise had access to and foresight to use a horse to carry him through the race he may even have been able to beat the hare even without the nap, showing that where someone is less able it can be a good idea to find the help of someone who can contribute more strongly in that area.



Also, as others have already mentioned (putting aside highly unusual circumstances like a mental or physical disability preventing or restricting use of certain abilities) skills are learned and up to certain limitations can be improved with study and practice; there is a limit to how fast a human can run, but any able-bodied person who takes to training and running regularly will end up able to run faster and for longer than they could before they started training. The same applies to social skills, business management, and even things like memory. If you're lacking in social skills you should get out there and practice.


Lastly, in the story from the original post, I believe John has an additional advantage that has not yet been commented on in great detail: John appears to accept that he will make mistakes, and is willing to try anyway, while from the sounds of it I suspect the highly-skilled Henry might have a bit of a fear of embarrassment and/or public humiliation and put far more effort into trying to do things right the first time and avoid mistakes. Mistakes are an excellent learning opportunity, and whilst they can sometimes be costly and should be avoided where easily foreseen they should not be something to fear, and should certainly not stop you from trying things. If you have trouble training your social skills because you're afraid of embarrassment you need to let that go and force yourself to do it anyway -- if you're just chatting to people in lines at shops, whilst on the bus, in bars or any similar situations then what does it matter if those people form a bad opinion of you? You're unlikely to see them again anyway, and if you do the slip-up may well be forgotten anyway, or might be written off as the product of a bad day if your social skills have since improved. Get out there and try, or you'll never get better!


If you're finding you're stuck without conversation try asking questions about the other person and then responding to what they say; people usually like to talk about themselves, and as long as you aren't constantly pestering them asking a couple of questions can be a good way to strike up conversation -- perhaps they'll say something that will allow you to segue to one of the alphabet stories suggested earlier in the topic. Asking questions is simple --
"that's a nice sweater, where did you get it?" [...] "Oh, what a bargain, I might have to check out that sale. I once got a <insert popular brand here> shirt 50% off because..."
or
"I see you've changed your hair, I like the new colour, when did you get that done?"
or
"So where is that accent from anyway, I take it you're not originally from the area?"
or if you're trying to start up a conversation with an unfamiliar woman (or man), even the lamest of lines will work as long as you deliver it confidently and with a smile -- remember, you're just talking to them, it doesn't necessarily have to lead to anything further -- you can decide to pursue that if the conversation is going well and you're interested:
"Do you know how much a polar-bear weighs?" [...] "Just enough to break the ice, I'm Henry."

With a little practice and a few mistakes you'll quickly learn what usually works and what usually doesn't.

I haven't kept on the discussion, but just a thought, often when I think about being persuasive( to girls or friends ), I feel like I'm doing something bad, something immoral. Because, usually, I would have to lie or bend the truth a little or don't say the truth. For example, I could tell a girl I love her just to get what I want, or I could tell my friend I'll pay you back let me borrow $20 for gas and so on... So sometimes, for me morality and kindheartness or whatever you wanna call it, gets in my way.

Just some random opinions without reading back:
Learn communication skills and don't be a douchebag and don't take everything soo seriously.
Not everyone likes to manipulate people, not everyone measures success in the things the OP implied. (okay, it's a bit off topic) Those words about "average wife" were quite um.... stupid.

To me, developing good socials skills started (and pretty much finished) with NOT GIVING A SHIT. It works. You know the situation "meet the parents". I did that all weekend, with relatives, goddaughter etc. I didn't give a shit about my "reputation", I didn't want do be appealing etc. And I was, at the end.

I got a job that way too. I was honest because I didn't give a shit. I immediately got the job.

I haven't kept on the discussion, but just a thought, often when I think about being persuasive( to girls or friends ), I feel like I'm doing something bad, something immoral. Because, usually, I would have to lie or bend the truth a little or don't say the truth. For example, I could tell a girl I love her just to get what I want, or I could tell my friend I'll pay you back let me borrow $20 for gas and so on... So sometimes, for me morality and kindheartness or whatever you wanna call it, gets in my way.

You don't have to be. That's why I said not everyone likes to manipulate. I had "successes" when I was honest. Not awkwardly honest like in Liar, liar, but sometimes I am almost that honest. But again, success is very subjective. Due to my OCD, I just can't lie to or manipulate important people (obsessive thoughts would drive me crazy). And due to my laziness, I pretty much can't manipulate anyone anyway...

[quote name='zedz' timestamp='1305505353' post='4811268']INTELLIGENCE - fact - genetics plays a huge part

INTELLIGENCE - fact - upbringing plays a huge part.


Take Einstein's kid and raise them in a sensory deprevation chamber and they'll be a vegetable. Take Cletus Delroy Spuckler's kid and raise them in a loving and nurturing environment that caters for their genetic disadvantages and they'll end up with an above average IQ.

Almost everything where we can say "that's genetic" is just a head-start or a slight handicap. The right environment can either overcome or reinforce these handicaps. The exceptions (the only truly genetic destiny) are obviously genetic diseases, which are extremely rare.
[/quote]

I was home schooled and by that I mean I sat around all day playing video games. I didn't even have the internet. My mother never graduated me and I was forced to get a GED. Despite the fact that I never went to school and never had any type of formal education I graduated in the 99 percentile. Less than 1% of high school graduates scored as high as I did. The only explanation is that it must have been genetic or that video games really make you smarter but I'm doubtful of the later...

I know, I used to be that way to. I used to go out on the town explicit purpose to ask for directions from ten people, and couldn't bring myself to speak to a single one. But once you realize that almost everyone wants to talk to you as well, it becomes much easier. I can't even recall being denied conversation (more then from people who are obviously busy) and with time it becomes very easy (and fun).

There is no other way to do it - just do it. All the books in the world won't help you say 'Hello'.

(Although I would suggest starting conversations with observations like "It sure is pouring" or "Where is the damn bus?" instead, since people don't think you're "after" them then.)

Hmm, yes. I agree up to a point, ultimately you do have to "just do it", but in my experience the change required to go from rabbit in headlights to being able to talk to strangers at the drop of a hat is more involved than thinking "just do it".

I have realised I am socially retarded, and realised that I have always dismissed and/or heavily underestimated the very important value of social skills, developing them only to the point where I could have friends and a girlfriend. This was for various reasons. For example due to not wanting to be manipulative and dishonest because I didn't realise you could have great social skills without being manipulative or dishonest. Also due to expecting my other natural attributes to take me where I wanted to go. So I made a decision to change that. I absorbed the advice on the subject I could find on the internet and the advice given in this thread. I wrote down some ABC stories and decided I would go alone to interesting places and events instead of with my friends. (Thanks thread people )

I was going to do that past Saturday night to a club my friends and I don't usually go to, but as it turns out a friend decided to come with me anyway. Still my plan was going ahead. I was going to go there relaxed, and be comfortable enjoying the music and having a few drinks even if I didn't talk to anyone all night. I think this last part was key in this instance. Not actually expecting to talk to anyone. Just finding a way to be comfortable in a social situation that I wanted to be in. And if I did meet new people then great.

It worked out alright, by being relaxed I was actually able to overcome the usual paralyzing fear, and because I wanted to I managed to talk to plenty of strangers that night. Sure I wasn't very acomplished, in fact I was probably a bit simple, and know I came across as weird to a few people, because my friend was giving me a bit of feedback and said I was flattering people that were known to him a bit much. Honest and generous praise is a habit of mine that I practise appropriately with close friends, but which I guess isn't so appropriate with strangers, however no big deal because I didn't ostracize myself from the scene . But I had a good time, managed to meet a fair few people with positive though not far reaching outcomes, managed to get social practise, and managed to get into the "just do it" zone at least for the night!

I will keep practising my social skills until I become the social butterfly I want to be (though with the difference of remaining loyal to my friends). Cheers.

P.S. I'm going to try the polar bear line someone mentioned in this thread one day when I'm confident enough I've heard it before and never thought much of it but this time I lol'ed at it, probably 'cos I now think it could actually be pulled off.

P.P.S I also need to work on my memory skills to remember people's names much better. I'm shamefully awful at it.

I was home schooled and by that I mean I sat around all day playing video games. I didn't even have the internet. My mother never graduated me and I was forced to get a GED. Despite the fact that I never went to school and never had any type of formal education I graduated in the 99 percentile. Less than 1% of high school graduates scored as high as I did. The only explanation is that it must have been genetic or that video games really make you smarter but I'm doubtful of the later...

EDIT: Congratulations! That's an interesting account. Another theory is that perhaps your brain was still starving for knowledge and you had a pretty much clean slate, and therefore learned it all really efficiently. If that is true then perhaps we overrate the importance of having such a long period of education as most people do. Stick kids in uni from the age of 11 till 15 (so that they have time to develop fundamental skills and the ability to make choices before going to uni) and then let them at the world?