That's what I've always been saying but no one understands.

Players don't know what they want, they keep asking for stuff that's just going to ruin or unbalance the game.
They don't even know how to play the game to it's full potential..

Then we got the bigshot studios who are supposed to be professional game developers and game designers.
But what do they do? They listen to all the players who don't know whats best for the game.

So what do we get? unbalanced game where there's a new OP class every month and everything is simplified to the point that there's no challenge in the game anymore because they are listening to all the players who don't know how to play the game to it's full potential.

And what I've said is only the surface of this idiocy.

But anyway, you seem to be very misinformed about WoW. Aside from the fact that a 10 hour walk is obviously an extreme exaggeration, there are plenty of things to do when traveling in WoW, particularly while you're leveling. Mainly finding quests and their objectives, gathering resources, searching for rare enemies and chests, running into and fighting other players, aiding friendly players, and (not so much after the first playthrough) just exploring the terrain. Even assuming you know about all that stuff, then calling that a waste of time is simply your opinion. My opinion is that it was an adventure, and it looks like most people here agree.

The 10 hours walk exaggeration was meant to contrast your "if they took all the roads out of a Pokemon game, and just put all the gyms in one town" exaggeration.

It really depends on whether the game is designed for players to have an adventure while travelling. I have played an MMO in which it takes 30-60 mintues to travel from one city/town to another. It was a lot of fun because the travelling is the content, and the whole MMO was designed around overcoming challenges on your way from one place to another.

But if an MMO is about exploring dungeons for example, there is really no point in forcing players to spend 30-60 minutes travelling just to get to your intended content. Better to let the players instantly teleport to the entrance of the dungeon.

Also if you don't like that style of game, or if you just want a game that moves quicker, then maybe you should try games like warcraft 3 or team fortress 2 or tetris or something.

Warcraft 3, Team Fortress 2 and Tetris are not MMORPGs.

Because the pvp zone became empty when everyone could go farm in complete safety.

Oh wait, Trammel and Felucca weren't separate servers?! Players can hop back and forth?!

Wow, that is pretty terrible game design.

[quote name='lmbarns' timestamp='1333744206' post='4928895']
Because the pvp zone became empty when everyone could go farm in complete safety.

Oh wait, Trammel and Felucca weren't separate servers?! Players can hop back and forth?!

Wow, that is pretty terrible game design.
[/quote]

Yea it would have been completely fine if you had to play either style of server, but they made it so monster dropped "trammel stones" which you could put in the dirt and wait for a moongate to spawn 10 seconds later to travel to a clone of the existing world, but safe from being killed by other players..............and it opened up an entire clone of the existing map for people to place new houses on. Where previously houses had such significant value because all the placements were taken, just the few that decayed would fall as people quit, went on vacation, etc. I remember 1 group of IT guys paid $2,000 for a castle, real money, and it was seen as a safe investment because they could get most of it back due to the shortage of housing during the first few years, after enjoying it for a while as a guild. I sold a large marble house for $225, smaller houses for $100.

So when the parallel clone safe world opened and twice as many people had houses, half the houses were in the safe world so people just stayed there. Heck, they could walk to their house carrying millions in gold without fear of being killed. Many people only went back to felucca to refresh their main house (which was the tits initially, but it's value slowly died just like the core population)

Then the entire game then became sitting in a dungeon room with 20 other guys and 5 things to kill and everyone taking each others loot. Then they made it so only the person who did significant damage could loot so advanced people would run through and 1 shot each monster people were fighting and take the loot from newbies as a form of grief.

The 10 hours walk exaggeration was meant to contrast your "if they took all the roads out of a Pokemon game, and just put all the gyms in one town" exaggeration.

It really depends on whether the game is designed for players to have an adventure while travelling. I have played an MMO in which it takes 30-60 mintues to travel from one city/town to another. It was a lot of fun because the travelling is the content, and the whole MMO was designed around overcoming challenges on your way from one place to another.

But if an MMO is about exploring dungeons for example, there is really no point in forcing players to spend 30-60 minutes travelling just to get to your intended content. Better to let the players instantly teleport to the entrance of the dungeon.

...

Warcraft 3, Team Fortress 2 and Tetris are not MMORPGs.

Except that I wasn't exaggerating at all. After you reach the max level, you can do or queue for everything else the game has to offer while standing in the AH, including dungeons, BGs, raids, arenas, RBGs, crafting, and trading. It's literally the same thing as if all the gyms were in one place and your opponents just came to you.


And who decided what the game is "about"? I'm saying WoW used to be designed for battling other players out in the wild and getting into big fights over the control of quest areas and gathering spots, etc, as well as doing dungeons and raids. I think the fun involved in that is definitely worth the time spent traveling to the instance(which was also never anywhere near 30-60 minutes). So that's why I suggest that if you want a game that's more about queuing for short sessions with other players, then why play something with miles and miles of landscape that you never use or even see? Do you just have to play something called an MMORPG?

Where previously houses had such significant value because all the placements were taken, just the few that decayed would fall as people quit, went on vacation, etc. I remember 1 group of IT guys paid $2,000 for a castle, real money, and it was seen as a safe investment because they could get most of it back due to the shortage of housing during the first few years, after enjoying it for a while as a guild. I sold a large marble house for $225, smaller houses for $100.

I just wanna say it sounds like Ultima was a lot of fun and I really like the whole open world pvp, full loot, high risk style of game. I tried Eve online and a game called Darkfall because they both have similar concepts, but both have pretty big downsides that makes it so they take a really long time to get into and I just don't think they were worth it

I forget what famous game designer said it, but one popular quote is, "Ask a group of players what they want, and they'll give you a laundry list of last year's most over-hyped features".

[quote name='lmbarns' timestamp='1333748705' post='4928909'] Where previously houses had such significant value because all the placements were taken, just the few that decayed would fall as people quit, went on vacation, etc. I remember 1 group of IT guys paid $2,000 for a castle, real money, and it was seen as a safe investment because they could get most of it back due to the shortage of housing during the first few years, after enjoying it for a while as a guild. I sold a large marble house for $225, smaller houses for $100.

I just wanna say it sounds like Ultima was a lot of fun and I really like the whole open world pvp, full loot, high risk style of game. I tried Eve online and a game called Darkfall because they both have similar concepts, but both have pretty big downsides that makes it so they take a really long time to get into and I just don't think they were worth it
[/quote]

Yes I played Darkfall and UO was fundamentally better in every way except darkfall has the best pvp gameplay if you leave your computer running 24/7 for a year macroing. But in no way was it nearly as wholesome an experience. UO had non-pvp templates that could make money and hundreds of skills, but you could only gain 700 skill points so you had to pick your 7 skills. It made it very diverse, and amazingly robust. Even on a non pvp bard character, you had a chance of winning if you used the area to your advantage.
UO was almost completely player skill based rather than grinded characters and gear. You could kill a maxed player with far less, it just took the right approach.

Yes I played Darkfall and UO was fundamentally better in every way except darkfall has the best pvp gameplay if you leave your computer running 24/7 for a year macroing.

Eve online is pretty much the exact same way. Eve actually has time-based skill training where you just queue the skills to learn and they learn after the set amount of time. Each level 4-5 skills take weeks to learn, so you're stuck just waiting around for months before you can fly better ships

I just wanna say it sounds like Ultima was a lot of fun and I really like the whole open world pvp, full loot, high risk style of game. I tried Eve online and a game called Darkfall because they both have similar concepts, but both have pretty big downsides that makes it so they take a really long time to get into and I just don't think they were worth it

This is why conveniences are needed to make it easier for players to get into a game. To many players, "long traveling time" is equivalent to the big downsides that stopped you from getting into EVE.

When I last played EVE about a year ago, I remember the extremely long time it takes to travel from place to place. My friend and I wanted to meet up in-game and it took us more than 30 minutes just to do so.

Except that I wasn't exaggerating at all. After you reach the max level, you can do or queue for everything else the game has to offer while standing in the AH, including dungeons, BGs, raids, arenas, RBGs, crafting, and trading. It's literally the same thing as if all the gyms were in one place and your opponents just came to you.

I don't see why this is "bad". If the intent of the game designer was to make a dungeon/BG/raid/arena/RBG/crafting/trading game, why stop players from playing the game by making them travel?

For example, if I make a game about dungeons, I would certainly let players instantly teleport to the entrance of each dungeons, instead of having to waste time traveling to them.

And who decided what the game is "about"?

The game designers get to decide what the game is "about".

I think the fun involved in that is definitely worth the time spent traveling to the instance(which was also never anywhere near 30-60 minutes).

If the activity is so fun, why are we stopping players from doing it via traveling?

So that's why I suggest that if you want a game that's more about queuing for short sessions with other players, then why play something with miles and miles of landscape that you never use or even see? Do you just have to play something called an MMORPG?

Because I like playing MMORPGs, the fun parts, without all the time wasting.