@6677 Inkscape limits you to 64 colors and at their best, 256 poor colors.
Err, what? I use Inkscape all the time, it has standard RGB/CMYK color and transparency like pretty much every other graphics program out there.
Anybody develop (or interested in developing) games using SVG, Scalable Vector Graphics?
Err, what? I use Inkscape all the time, it has standard RGB/CMYK color and transparency like pretty much every other graphics program out there.
Agreed Inkscape can do 16.7million colours too, just like Flash, or Illustrator.
While SVG's do have some use, making cartoony graphics with clean lines, or rescalable UI and buttons, this software doesn't appear to solve any problems? Not only is converting a photo to a vector relatively useless - why do you want to scale a photo up that much, you could just load more, most cameras take photos at a very high resolution - vectors are also very low performance compared to standard bitmap data. I don't see any GPU's out there that let you push SVG points.
Unless your photo is very repetitive, you are going to end up with an SVG rectangle for every pixel, making very little space gain (if not negative, SVG is stored in XML), and also reducing rendering performance.
Flash less interactive than your app? You could develop the Flash IDE in Flash theoretically.
While SVG's do have some use, making cartoony graphics with clean lines, or rescalable UI and buttons, this software doesn't appear to solve any problems? Not only is converting a photo to a vector relatively useless - why do you want to scale a photo up that much, you could just load more, most cameras take photos at a very high resolution - vectors are also very low performance compared to standard bitmap data. I don't see any GPU's out there that let you push SVG points.
Unless your photo is very repetitive, you are going to end up with an SVG rectangle for every pixel, making very little space gain (if not negative, SVG is stored in XML), and also reducing rendering performance.
Flash less interactive than your app? You could develop the Flash IDE in Flash theoretically.
Please name one product that lets anybody animate SVG photographs online.
Sure, that may or may not be true, but before that's even relevant you need to convince us that animating SVG photographs is something we actually want to do. Game developers have existing tools and processes that are very efficient and effective -- what are the benefits of switching to your technology?
You might also research your competition more extensively, as your claims about colour limitations and a lack of interactivity in Flash are simply incorrect.
I can't see how this would help me with game development. How many actually uses photos for their games? Also everything you show on the site looks bad. All the edges are jagged. Even if I wanted to do a game with moving photos, I certainly would not use your tool.
The only unique thing you have is that users are able to "animate photos online". But why would I want to do that? Can I make the game online too? If I need to upload my photos, animate them, and then download them again to use them in my game, I might just as well use an offline tool.
From site: "We are the only ones who can convert a photo into vector at photographic quality."
This is not true, and your tool doesn't even do a good job.
The only unique thing you have is that users are able to "animate photos online". But why would I want to do that? Can I make the game online too? If I need to upload my photos, animate them, and then download them again to use them in my game, I might just as well use an offline tool.
From site: "We are the only ones who can convert a photo into vector at photographic quality."
This is not true, and your tool doesn't even do a good job.
That might be true, but you are clearly with the company responsible for marketing the tool, which is pretty much the same thing. Once again you are being deceptive.
BTW--I didn't make,nor help make, the tool.
I think SVG actually could have a use in game development, specially on mobile platforms were you need to support a wide variety of resolutions with the same binary.
But not for pixmaps/photos, but for actual vector graphics designed by an artist, that then would be rendered to create sprites on startup, and after that everything would work as normal, but with crisper edges
So I can't say I see any use for this in our art pipeline either.
Being a vector format, SVG is not really very suitable for storing pixmap data, which is pretty obvious on your _huge_ (for what they contain), example svgs.
And I must say you have a very liberal interpretation of the word "photographic quality"
Also, apart from being deceptive, you phrase your advertisements as if you are talking with children.
Why are you even trying to be underhanded with these posts, when you are listed as the _contact_person_ on the company web page?
No-one will even think twice about a marketing rep coming here trying to sell their products, its even expected.
But not for pixmaps/photos, but for actual vector graphics designed by an artist, that then would be rendered to create sprites on startup, and after that everything would work as normal, but with crisper edges
So I can't say I see any use for this in our art pipeline either.
Being a vector format, SVG is not really very suitable for storing pixmap data, which is pretty obvious on your _huge_ (for what they contain), example svgs.
And I must say you have a very liberal interpretation of the word "photographic quality"
Also, apart from being deceptive, you phrase your advertisements as if you are talking with children.
Why are you even trying to be underhanded with these posts, when you are listed as the _contact_person_ on the company web page?
No-one will even think twice about a marketing rep coming here trying to sell their products, its even expected.
Author
Hi Everyone,
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and causing anybody to thing I was trying to be anything but my intent, which was (1) as the title said, "Anybody develop (or interested in developing) games using SVG, Scalable Vector Graphics?", and (2) consider trying out this animation tool (guys its free, it's in Pre-Launch), and (3) I was looking for professional game developer feedback about SVG games. I didn't see the problem with asking.
Please remember this is a Pre-Launch product, warts and all (did I again mention it's free?). Our animation code is open-sourced as well. I'm not trying to sell a product.
Our file sizes are larger than you want at this time; however, when we release our core technology in about 6-8 months we will make SVG several times smaller than JPEG in file size and yet retain better than JPEG quality. I will leave you guys alone until that time comes; but, in the mean time there will be some game developer who will gain early-adopter advantages and I'm pretty sure of a few who won't fall in that category.
Regarding Inkscape and Illustrator being able to do 16.7 million colors, I don't think that is via Live Trace. We don't make SVG photographic in quality yet, that website statement should be modified. We have other places where we state high quality or near photographic quality, and it is pretty high quality as compared to most live traces that are done by Inkscape, Illustrator, CorelDRAW, VectorMagic, and a slew of others including RaveGrid.
To pick up on what Olof said about sprites, here is where we are headed...
We create the sprite inside the blitter , and we believe that would give you the ability to take real world data and put it into a sprite. The browser would be the animation engine.
SVG, HTML5, and advertising example: A user-targeted ad could let the user surf a wave at a resort beach, or sail a boat, drive a car, or sit in a movie theatre and view a movie trailor. A website user could be reading an article on the top 10 sports cars and a small vectorized sports car comes across the text and stops. The user could interact with that car by opening the hood or trunk. They could honk the horn or open the door. The developer could even give them the opportunity to upload a photo of himself, be turned into vector with hinge points, set in the car and drive off the screen. With SVG and HTML5 we can offer SVG responsiveness so the user can interact in ways that we don't think are possible today.
Okay, okay, I'm not asking to be tied on a stake and burned. I'm just throwing some things out there that can soon be possible with animated SVG within the next 6-8 months. If I've insulted some of you, please accept my apologies. Insulting, degrading, misleading, or trickng a bunch of experts is far from my intention. I'm just trying to open minds up to some possibilities.
My hope in creating the topic was for feedback and interaction on the use of, or potential use of SVG in animating games (not sales...did I mention our product is free??). Our animation tool is open-sourced with via Berkeley licensing.
Thank you for your comments and feedback just the same everybody. Perhaps we can converse again in the future on a more enjoyable note for all.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and causing anybody to thing I was trying to be anything but my intent, which was (1) as the title said, "Anybody develop (or interested in developing) games using SVG, Scalable Vector Graphics?", and (2) consider trying out this animation tool (guys its free, it's in Pre-Launch), and (3) I was looking for professional game developer feedback about SVG games. I didn't see the problem with asking.
Please remember this is a Pre-Launch product, warts and all (did I again mention it's free?). Our animation code is open-sourced as well. I'm not trying to sell a product.
Our file sizes are larger than you want at this time; however, when we release our core technology in about 6-8 months we will make SVG several times smaller than JPEG in file size and yet retain better than JPEG quality. I will leave you guys alone until that time comes; but, in the mean time there will be some game developer who will gain early-adopter advantages and I'm pretty sure of a few who won't fall in that category.
Regarding Inkscape and Illustrator being able to do 16.7 million colors, I don't think that is via Live Trace. We don't make SVG photographic in quality yet, that website statement should be modified. We have other places where we state high quality or near photographic quality, and it is pretty high quality as compared to most live traces that are done by Inkscape, Illustrator, CorelDRAW, VectorMagic, and a slew of others including RaveGrid.
To pick up on what Olof said about sprites, here is where we are headed...
We create the sprite inside the blitter , and we believe that would give you the ability to take real world data and put it into a sprite. The browser would be the animation engine.
SVG, HTML5, and advertising example: A user-targeted ad could let the user surf a wave at a resort beach, or sail a boat, drive a car, or sit in a movie theatre and view a movie trailor. A website user could be reading an article on the top 10 sports cars and a small vectorized sports car comes across the text and stops. The user could interact with that car by opening the hood or trunk. They could honk the horn or open the door. The developer could even give them the opportunity to upload a photo of himself, be turned into vector with hinge points, set in the car and drive off the screen. With SVG and HTML5 we can offer SVG responsiveness so the user can interact in ways that we don't think are possible today.
Okay, okay, I'm not asking to be tied on a stake and burned. I'm just throwing some things out there that can soon be possible with animated SVG within the next 6-8 months. If I've insulted some of you, please accept my apologies. Insulting, degrading, misleading, or trickng a bunch of experts is far from my intention. I'm just trying to open minds up to some possibilities.
My hope in creating the topic was for feedback and interaction on the use of, or potential use of SVG in animating games (not sales...did I mention our product is free??). Our animation tool is open-sourced with via Berkeley licensing.
Thank you for your comments and feedback just the same everybody. Perhaps we can converse again in the future on a more enjoyable note for all.
I know i shouldn't respond, but w/e, i'm going to anyway.
1. people walked into this thread because they were probably scratching their head in trying to figure out why anyone is asking about developing games with SVG in the announcment part of the forum, ready to respond to some conversation, we are given:
2. half way through the post, it changes to some blantant advertising for a "tool" that is "online" and can apparantly "speed up development time", you've yet to offer any reasons for why this is so, and their are thousands of free tools, that doesn't make them good.
3. professional game developers are giving you feedback, they just don't like being tricked into using some tool that has yet to offer up any reason for being better than their standard pipelines.
Pre-launch of what, your tool? which you still haven't explained why or how it's going to better than current offerings on the market, you've made inflated claims without backing any of it up.
no one has even mentioned, or cared abut file sizes at the moment, instead, we are asking questions about why it's better, which you are completely avoiding.
the browser can animate sprites in the same manor that animating swg vector graphics give you, the only advantage to using vector graphics, is that in some cases, the animations can be more of a deforming/forming animation to a targeted image easier, but that's only suitable for if you are trying to achieve that particular effect/animation.
first of all, you expect the user to go through the length of uploading an image just for an ad, or worse, invade their privacy and use a webcam to grab an image of them. then, your going to decode that image, and somehow figure out the person's body shape to create a bunch of hinged points, and bone's with those hinges, and finally your going to then be able to animate this created avatar of the person, on demand, on their PC. forget about advertsing, you've created a very advance piece of software, you'd be better off targeting kinect, since what your talking about is essentially doing what kinect does, but from just a color image off a webcam(or even potentially a high-quality image).
so, good luck with that. let's not forget that SVG is just an image format for describing a set of vector's to be drawn, so in truth this same sophisticated technology could be applied to any image format, rather it's a bitmap rastered image, or a series of vertice's. it doesn't matter.
you haven't thrown anything out their, your making wild claims, and i've yet to see where the payoff is for a developer, you are being burned at the stake, because honestly, this sounds like an infomercial from a late-night off the air channel.
some dev's use SVG's to contain their images, but you haven't made any case for why your system is better for Games. photo-realistic images are very rarely used in games, and are generally completly unnessary. so why your leading with that on a site dedicated to game development is beyond me.
Hi Everyone,
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and causing anybody to thing I was trying to be anything but my intent, which was (1) as the title said, "Anybody develop (or interested in developing) games using SVG, Scalable Vector Graphics?", and (2) consider trying out this animation tool (guys its free, it's in Pre-Launch), and (3) I was looking for professional game developer feedback about SVG games. I didn't see the problem with asking.
1. people walked into this thread because they were probably scratching their head in trying to figure out why anyone is asking about developing games with SVG in the announcment part of the forum, ready to respond to some conversation, we are given:
2. half way through the post, it changes to some blantant advertising for a "tool" that is "online" and can apparantly "speed up development time", you've yet to offer any reasons for why this is so, and their are thousands of free tools, that doesn't make them good.
3. professional game developers are giving you feedback, they just don't like being tricked into using some tool that has yet to offer up any reason for being better than their standard pipelines.
Please remember this is a Pre-Launch product, warts and all (did I again mention it's free?). Our animation code is open-sourced as well. I'm not trying to sell a product.
Pre-launch of what, your tool? which you still haven't explained why or how it's going to better than current offerings on the market, you've made inflated claims without backing any of it up.
Our file sizes are larger than you want at this time; however, when we release our core technology in about 6-8 months we will make SVG several times smaller than JPEG in file size and yet retain better than JPEG quality. I will leave you guys alone until that time comes; but, in the mean time there will be some game developer who will gain early-adopter advantages and I'm pretty sure of a few who won't fall in that category.
no one has even mentioned, or cared abut file sizes at the moment, instead, we are asking questions about why it's better, which you are completely avoiding.
To pick up on what Olof said about sprites, here is where we are headed...
We create the sprite inside the blitter , and we believe that would give you the ability to take real world data and put it into a sprite. The browser would be the animation engine.
the browser can animate sprites in the same manor that animating swg vector graphics give you, the only advantage to using vector graphics, is that in some cases, the animations can be more of a deforming/forming animation to a targeted image easier, but that's only suitable for if you are trying to achieve that particular effect/animation.
SVG, HTML5, and advertising example: A user-targeted ad could let the user surf a wave at a resort beach, or sail a boat, drive a car, or sit in a movie theatre and view a movie trailor. A website user could be reading an article on the top 10 sports cars and a small vectorized sports car comes across the text and stops. The user could interact with that car by opening the hood or trunk. They could honk the horn or open the door. The developer could even give them the opportunity to upload a photo of himself, be turned into vector with hinge points, set in the car and drive off the screen. With SVG and HTML5 we can offer SVG responsiveness so the user can interact in ways that we don't think are possible today.
first of all, you expect the user to go through the length of uploading an image just for an ad, or worse, invade their privacy and use a webcam to grab an image of them. then, your going to decode that image, and somehow figure out the person's body shape to create a bunch of hinged points, and bone's with those hinges, and finally your going to then be able to animate this created avatar of the person, on demand, on their PC. forget about advertsing, you've created a very advance piece of software, you'd be better off targeting kinect, since what your talking about is essentially doing what kinect does, but from just a color image off a webcam(or even potentially a high-quality image).
so, good luck with that. let's not forget that SVG is just an image format for describing a set of vector's to be drawn, so in truth this same sophisticated technology could be applied to any image format, rather it's a bitmap rastered image, or a series of vertice's. it doesn't matter.
Okay, okay, I'm not asking to be tied on a stake and burned. I'm just throwing some things out there that can soon be possible with animated SVG within the next 6-8 months. If I've insulted some of you, please accept my apologies. Insulting, degrading, misleading, or trickng a bunch of experts is far from my intention. I'm just trying to open minds up to some possibilities.
you haven't thrown anything out their, your making wild claims, and i've yet to see where the payoff is for a developer, you are being burned at the stake, because honestly, this sounds like an infomercial from a late-night off the air channel.
My hope in creating the topic was for feedback and interaction on the use of, or potential use of SVG in animating games (not sales...did I mention our product is free??). Our animation tool is open-sourced with via Berkeley licensing.
Thank you for your comments and feedback just the same everybody. Perhaps we can converse again in the future on a more enjoyable note for all.
some dev's use SVG's to contain their images, but you haven't made any case for why your system is better for Games. photo-realistic images are very rarely used in games, and are generally completly unnessary. so why your leading with that on a site dedicated to game development is beyond me.
I have some feedback for you -- I genuinely mean this to be constructive, and hope it is taken as such -- first on your approach to advertising, and then on your product and pitching.
Your advertising
Advertising a relevant product is fine. We allow, and even expect such things in this community from time-to-time, and the same is true of many similar communities where you might advertise or look for feedback on this product. Do however make sure you're posting in the correct forum section, and simply state up front that you are marketing a product. I see that your product is currently available for free trials, but this is still a marketing exercise, and you would benefit by clearly labelling it as such to avoid any confusion.
Know your product, and know your audience. This community has a very technically skilled audience, and we have established tools and workflows that we already know very well. If you're going to make comparisons between your product and existing approaches, you need to be correct -- it really hurts your case when you make unfounded claims about the colour capabilities of InkScape, or the interactivity possible with Flash.
When making claims, be prepared to back them up. Don't say you have photo-realistic quality when your examples very clearly show that you do not. It's fine to say you will have it in future, but claiming it as a feature when it has yet to be implemented comes across as dishonest.
Your product
We already know about SVG, and more generally about vector graphics, and sometimes make use of these in our workflow.
We also already know about HTML5 -- which is not a part of your product -- and it is seeing increasingly common use, with numerous libraries and tools now available to us.
Some of us may need to be convinced that SVG is a better choice than the raster or alternative vector formats we're already using. You would best approach this with a quick and to-the-point list of benefits, making comparisons to existing alternatives; you should however endeavour to ensure that your comparisons are both correct, and relevant. It is incorrect when you say you have support for more colours than Inkscape, because we already know Inkscape supports just as many colours. It is irrelevant when you say your tool will be better for storing photos than jpeg, because we only rarely use photos and almost never use the jpeg format due to it's lossy compression.
You then need to convince us your product is better than other available SVG tools. Why would we want an online rather than offline tool? What does your tool offer that other tools do not?
Hopefully some of that helps you to better present your product in future.
Your advertising
Advertising a relevant product is fine. We allow, and even expect such things in this community from time-to-time, and the same is true of many similar communities where you might advertise or look for feedback on this product. Do however make sure you're posting in the correct forum section, and simply state up front that you are marketing a product. I see that your product is currently available for free trials, but this is still a marketing exercise, and you would benefit by clearly labelling it as such to avoid any confusion.
Know your product, and know your audience. This community has a very technically skilled audience, and we have established tools and workflows that we already know very well. If you're going to make comparisons between your product and existing approaches, you need to be correct -- it really hurts your case when you make unfounded claims about the colour capabilities of InkScape, or the interactivity possible with Flash.
When making claims, be prepared to back them up. Don't say you have photo-realistic quality when your examples very clearly show that you do not. It's fine to say you will have it in future, but claiming it as a feature when it has yet to be implemented comes across as dishonest.
Your product
We already know about SVG, and more generally about vector graphics, and sometimes make use of these in our workflow.
We also already know about HTML5 -- which is not a part of your product -- and it is seeing increasingly common use, with numerous libraries and tools now available to us.
Some of us may need to be convinced that SVG is a better choice than the raster or alternative vector formats we're already using. You would best approach this with a quick and to-the-point list of benefits, making comparisons to existing alternatives; you should however endeavour to ensure that your comparisons are both correct, and relevant. It is incorrect when you say you have support for more colours than Inkscape, because we already know Inkscape supports just as many colours. It is irrelevant when you say your tool will be better for storing photos than jpeg, because we only rarely use photos and almost never use the jpeg format due to it's lossy compression.
You then need to convince us your product is better than other available SVG tools. Why would we want an online rather than offline tool? What does your tool offer that other tools do not?
Hopefully some of that helps you to better present your product in future.
This topic is closed to new replies.
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