Single Combat with the Sword: A Prototype (feedback requested)

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30 comments, last by Thaumaturge 9 years, 4 months ago

First of all I'm not fond of sword fighting games, but I will try to be as objective as possible.

Feedback

- The sword was responsive most of the time
- Nice feeling when you manage to dodge an enemy swing with a swift move, and stick your sword in his head. Touché!
- The AI is easy, and sometimes repetitive. (she dodge more often on her right than her left)

- parrying is not precise enough
- sometimes a little rough

Recommendation

- Maybe having a stamina bar to prevent spamming or moving around too much?
- Giving to the player visual advices? (where is the attack coming from, an opening)
- I don't really know fencing, but shouldn't the movement be heavier?

Overall

It still need some polish but the feelings are here, so good job and I'm waiting for the next updates ;D

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Thank you for the feedback! ^_^

- The AI is easy, and sometimes repetitive. (she dodge more often on her right than her left)

Aye, the AI does want for more work, I fear. :/

I hadn't noticed that preference for dodging to the right, I don't think--thank you for pointing it out!

At the least I do have in it mind is to vary the AI's responses a little more, but I do think that some thought--and perhaps research--is called for in improving the AI...

- parrying is not precise enough

Could you elaborate on this a little, please? Do you mean the movement of the character's arm, the physics, or perhaps something else?

- sometimes a little rough

I'm honestly not sure of what you mean here--again, would you elaborate, please? ^^;

- Maybe having a stamina bar to prevent spamming or moving around too much?

I've been thinking about such measures. A stamina bar might work, although I worry that it might make the experience a little more... "gamey", I suppose, than I was hoping for. I'm also considering having spammed attacks result in the character stumbling, recovering slowly, or otherwise leaving herself more open...

- Giving to the player visual advices? (where is the attack coming from, an opening)

Hmm... It's a thought, although again I want to reduce the number of elements that remind the player that they're playing a game... I also don't want to make it easier than it already is, for that matter! ^^;

- I don't really know fencing, but shouldn't the movement be heavier?

Do you mean the heft and momentum of the sword? I'm not sure, but I don't think so: a single-handed sword shouldn't be all that heavy, and a well-balanced one should, I think, be pretty manoeuvrable. (For one thing, don't believe the old D&D depictions of swords as heavy things.)

It still need some polish but the feelings are here, so good job and I'm waiting for the next updates ;D

Thank you very much! ^_^

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

My Twitter Account: @EbornIan

I will try to be more precise :D


Quote

- parrying is not precise enough
Could you elaborate on this a little, please? Do you mean the movement of the character's arm, the physics, or perhaps something else?



Quote
- sometimes a little rough

I'm honestly not sure of what you mean here--again, would you elaborate, please? ^^;


I think it's because it seems that sometimes the movement of the arm doesn't follow the mouse.

Also when you have you sword in front of you you can parry nearly every attack without moving.

I'm sorry, I know I'm not really helpfulI here, but I can't explain precisely the problem. Maybe it's because I'm not accostumed to the pace of the game? (On a side note, If I were you, I would just say : Ok. And ignore me. So feel free to do so :) )

On a side note, If I were you, I would just say : Ok. And ignore me. So feel free to do so

Not at all: indeed, it's a good idea for me to get input from people to whom the mechanic doesn't come naturally, both because it seems likely that there will be some such players in the final user-base and because people not accustomed to a gameplay style may sometimes point out things that others miss. Thank you for taking the time to play-test this prototype. ^_^

You mention the pace of the game: does it seem faster than you like, or slower? Have you tried adjusting the mouse sensitivity? (Press "o" to toggle the options menu, in which mouse sensitivity may be set via a slider--but note that it isn't saved between sessions, as far as I recall.)

I think it's because it seems that sometimes the movement of the arm doesn't follow the mouse.

Hmm... I haven't noticed that myself, but I should look into it: I feel that it's important that a game mechanic like this respond intuitively.

Do you find this to be specific to attacks, parries or both?

Also when you have you sword in front of you you can parry nearly every attack without moving.

Ah, yes, that's a long-standing bugbear that I'm aware of, and have been fighting. :/

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

My Twitter Account: @EbornIan


You mention the pace of the game: does it seem faster than you like, or slower? Have you tried adjusting the mouse sensitivity? (Press "o" to toggle the options menu, in which mouse sensitivity may be set via a slider--but note that it isn't saved between sessions, as far as I recall.)

I would say that the parrying is a bit too slow, and the attack is fine. I adjusted the mouse sensitivity (quicker, around 20) and I found it better like that.


Do you find this to be specific to attacks, parries or both?


For the parries essentialy. The attack often respond fine.

Ah, yes, that's a long-standing bugbear that I'm aware of, and have been fighting. :/


Good luck then :)

I would say that the parrying is a bit too slow, and the attack is fine. I adjusted the mouse sensitivity (quicker, around 20) and I found it better like that.

Aah, I see--thank you. Mouse sensitivity can be somewhat specific to each player's device, but I have increased the default value to twenty.

Good luck then smile.png

Thank you! I think that I've made some good progress on that, actually--hopefully the next version will have a somewhat cannier and more dangerous opponent. happy.png

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

My Twitter Account: @EbornIan

New version!

Note that, due to some of the changes that I've made (in particular work on integrating this mechanic with the main game), the prototype no longer waits for you to press space in order to start; however, the AI shouldn't attack immediately (unless you do), so you should have a moment in which to find your bearings.

Changes:

  • Various improvements to the AI--for one, the "universal parry" should no longer work.
  • A maximum "mouse speed" has been instituted.
    • I was concerned about people with fast controllers being able to push the sensitivity to maximum, and thus be able to attack fast enough that the AI has insufficient time in which to react.
    • Please let me know if this maximum is too low!
  • "Small" attacks--those started too close to the centre-line, more or less--now do no damage.
  • The game now defaults (more or less intentionally, that is) to windowed mode, but should be more playable that way. However, see the next point.
  • Changes to the options menu:
    • Fullscreen may be toggled and the resolution set (from a set of only three options at the moment, I'm afraid) in the "graphics" tab.
    • Mouse sensitivity may be set in the "combat" tab.
    • Key-bindings may be changed in the "controls" tab.
  • Some additional sounds, and some changes to which sounds are played and when.
  • Minor "flinch" animations; I should likely make their motions slightly larger, however.
  • Miscellaneous other changes.

Known issues:

  • There's at least one type of attack which--if successfully pulled off--the AI has little answer for.
  • Some physics issues remain.
  • Game options are not stored between sessions--with the possible exception of the key bindings, which might successfully store.

The new prototype aside, I have a more general concern regarding which I could use advice: I'm uncertain of how well this mechanic is going to fit into the game for which I'm creating it.

The game flow that I'm trying to create for my "levels" is one of exploration and some puzzle-solving, involving first-person exploration of the game environments, punctuated at times by dangerous combat encounters. In a single level the player might have, say, one to five combat encounters.

If you've played the old combat-inclusive gamebooks--Fighting Fantasy or Lone Wolf, for example--think of those: such gamebooks are one of the inspirations for this project.

This brings me to my two main problems: First, since combat doesn't happen often, this mechanic is somewhat fast-paced and unusual, and the main gameplay moves somewhat more slowly, I'm worried that players won't manage to gain proficiency with this mechanic, and thus founder against tougher encounters. Second, I'm concerned that it will feel out of place, and damage the flow of the game.

I've considered putting together something more puzzle- or turn- based, but thus far am having trouble coming up with something satisfying; in particular, turn- or puzzle- based mechanics seem to me to tend to lack the sense of urgency and danger that I'd like combat to have.

(There is one mechanic that I'm aware of that would likely work--and indeed which was an inspiration for this mechanic--that being the mechanic used by the Quest for Glory games. However, I'm very hesitant to simply copy that. :/)

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

My Twitter Account: @EbornIan

Can't believe i missed this update but I've played it and here are my thoughts on it:

What i liked:

- A.I is more challenging and most of the time deflects/parries your attacks.

- The sword control is more improved especially thanks to options.

- Spamming while possible, is very unlikely to happen consecutively.

What needs to be improved:

- The Parry exploit, i found a new one:

Feedback.png

If i stay in this position all attacks can be blocked.

Overall:

This mechanic is coming along smoothly and is progressing very well. If you get the exploit/exploits fixed then this mechanic should work as intended.

Advice:

I know a little bit about gamebooks so sorry if get things wrong and please correct if i am wrong.

I think i know what you mean with you being concerned with this mechanic out of place. What i would say is, make the mechanic and exploration work smoothly along with each other.

Make the exploration with a camera angle that is similar to the combat and make the exploration kind of similar to a dungeon crawler like Phantasy Star so that say when a door opens and an enemy appears make the screen fade to a different battle arena which you fight with the monster/monsters and i would suggest making the movement more slower and more tight during the battle.

Also i think you should add more things such as spells,skills etc. which would make it more RPG-like and say to select items or skills you have this Kingdom Hearts like menu . So say you're in battle and you want to use a magic spell.

You have three bars at the top of your screen:

1)Magic.

2)Item.

3)Skill.

And you're fighting and want to use one of three commands, you could do it like this:

- Press 1 to open up magic.

- Use the mouse wheel to select one of the spells you want to use.

- Press 1 to confirm it.

Also you could have a dice that rolls each match to get a bonus stat upgrade such as ATK or increase the chances to find rare items that may be hidden in some of the places you visit.

The only thing is i don't how exploration will work in your game.

Thank you for the feedback, and I'm glad that it is indeed improving! happy.png

The Parry exploit, i found a new one:

Gah, you're right--the "universal parry" is starting to look "eternal" as well as "universal"!

In all seriousness, I'm hoping that this might be fixed by means of a minor adjustment; we'll see once I look into it a little more deeply (I've been looking at elements of the larger game, and a file-writing issue, of late).

Thank you too for your advice. While I think that what you suggest might work, I feel that it would also take me rather far from what I intend for this game.

In short, exploration is intended to be the "meat" of the game, with levels of varied types: some might revolve around traversal challenges (jumping, climbing, finding routes, etc.); others might be full of traps; some might focus on adventure-game puzzles (deciphering text, puzzle minigames, etc.); and so on. There would likely be those that mix various types to one degree or another. Some might be short and simple, others might be long and difficult.

Combat is intended to be relatively infrequent--say an average of three encounters per level.

Inspired by advice on another forum, my current thought is to try to have the more active sorts of exploration--traversal challenges, traps, etc.--include more enemies, and those that involve heavier puzzle-solving include few to none.

However, if I do end up finding that this combat mechanic doesn't work with the exploration mechanics, it's more likely to be the combat mechanic that's changed than the exploration: the latter is the core of my game, I feel.

To give an example of the intended flow, a hypothetical level might run something like this:

~

In the midst of a forest, you've discovered a strange, seemingly-forgotten structure buried beneath the earth; all that it bares to the world above is a single, plant-shrouded doorway of weathered worked stone set into a small mound, opening onto a stairway leading into the earth.

You descend. The stairway opens onto a long hallway, faintly lit by phosphorescent mosses; there are two doors to either side, all closed, and a single, open door ahead. Inset into the dusty marble floor is a circle of some other stone, and a sigil inscribed within it in brass. Passing through the open door, you discover that the next chamber has caved in: the ceiling above has fallen, burying the room in great boulders, and exposing a dark hole above the suggests a second floor. With some difficulty, you find a path over the boulders, climbing towards the hole. Beyond, you encounter another door, this one held fast by strange glowing runes. To either side are niches in which stand statues bearing staffs of engraved brass. You take one of the staffs--it might be useful, and looks nice, then turn your attention to the door.

Looking closer, you find that the runes move to your touch. Experimenting a little, you find that there's a pattern to their movements. Remembering the entrance hall, you prompt the runes to follow the course of the sigil in the floor. As the last rune slips into place, the patterns shines brightly--and the door slides open!

The chamber beyond is small, and contains only a single item of interest: a large tome resting on a time-worn wooden lectern. You pick up the book, open it; most of it has been lost to unknown centuries of disintegration and bookworm, but one remaining page stands out: a mention of a place of power, a clue towards your greater goal. You take the page, leaving the crumbling book behind, and turn to leave.

As you reach the entrance hall, you find that one of the side-doors has opened, and before you now stands a stone guardian. There is no evading it--you must fight! The battle is long--the guardian's stone hide takes little damage from your sword--but at last you prevail, and at last regain the light of day. With your new clue in mind, you set out again...

~

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

My Twitter Account: @EbornIan

Glad to know its going well :) . Oh and i think i may know how to fix the parry mechanic, wouldn't it be a better idea to have button that puts you in a block stance, but still makes you vulnerable and to parry an attack you have to be in the block stance and swipe the mouse forward while the enemy attacks?

The enemy could have a block breaker if the player is always blocking. Also i think that when a battle with an enemy starts it should go to a separate battle arena and after the battle ends it could go back to the exploration so that the meaty core of the game isn't changed due to the combat.

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