DX Version Suggestions
Author
I would like to make a suggestion to you programmers - I''ve been noticing this bad trend that is driving me nuts.
DON''T MAKE YOUR GAME USE DX7 IF IT DOESN''T NEED THE NEWEST FUNCTIONS!
Sorry for yelling, but jeez - I refuse to force somebody to always have the newest version of DX installed when it''s not needed. What possible functions (in 2d I''m talking) do you need that V5 doesn''t provide?
You need to understand that newer DX drivers are either buggy, not supported yet, or I just don''t care to have to download 10 megs worth of shit to try something that in the end might trash my system and make me reinstall Windows to go back to a working version of DX (which I''ve done a couple of times). Anybody tired of DX7a yet?
Jim
What language!!
Hmm...reasons for requiring end users to use DX7...
1) DX7 is faster (sometimes as much as 40%).
2) People use other things than DirectDraw when writing games.
3) You can use your DX6-compatible video drivers with DX7.
4) Newer versions of DX fix bugs found in previous versions.
Did I miss anything? Ah, yes. DX7 sports very different interfaces. It''s much easier to use, and it''s hard to learn to code both the old version and the new version. Most people just learn the latest.
When a newer version of DX comes out, I download it anyway. No problems. Just get over it!
Oh yeah, and I''m not tired of using DX7.a yet. Maybe by the time DX8 comes out...
- null_pointer
Hmm...reasons for requiring end users to use DX7...
1) DX7 is faster (sometimes as much as 40%).
2) People use other things than DirectDraw when writing games.
3) You can use your DX6-compatible video drivers with DX7.
4) Newer versions of DX fix bugs found in previous versions.
Did I miss anything? Ah, yes. DX7 sports very different interfaces. It''s much easier to use, and it''s hard to learn to code both the old version and the new version. Most people just learn the latest.
When a newer version of DX comes out, I download it anyway. No problems. Just get over it!
Oh yeah, and I''m not tired of using DX7.a yet. Maybe by the time DX8 comes out...
- null_pointer
Author
> 1) DX7 is faster (sometimes as much as 40%).
This is the biggest misconception people have about DX. It does not make it faster because of the newest version. If a card uses a hardware blitter, it''s a VERY good guess that it''ll use the same methods in the next version. Do you think newer DX versions somehow magically alters your video card hardware? Maybe the software rendering changes, maybe it doesn''t. I''m sure that Microsoft doesn''t pay their employees to sit down an rewrite the blitting code for every single DX version.
>2) People use other things than DirectDraw when writing games.
That has absolutely nothing to do with this - who cares what you use it for.
> 3) You can use your DX6-compatible video drivers with DX7.
What? Are you saying I can use DX6 for my DX7-required apps?
> 4) Newer versions of DX fix bugs found in previous versions.
And they also create new ones.
> Did I miss anything? Ah, yes. DX7 sports very different interfaces. It''s much easier to use, and it''s hard to learn to code both the old version and the new version. Most people just learn the latest.
Ok, I would like to to explain this. As I mentioned in my first message, it was in regards to 2d. Does the bltfast interface change? No. Does blt? No. Maybe new functions come with every new release, but who doesn''t use bltfast?
DX uses COM. COM is built around reusable components that ALWAYS stay the same. The calls don''t change.
To understand what I''m talking about, look at Starcraft. A newer (kinda) game that used the min usable version of DX -- 3. They could have went with 5, but why? They had the functions they needed.
Jim Adams
Game-Designer/Author
tcm@pobox.com
http://www.lightbefallen.com
http://www.basicelectronics.com
This is the biggest misconception people have about DX. It does not make it faster because of the newest version. If a card uses a hardware blitter, it''s a VERY good guess that it''ll use the same methods in the next version. Do you think newer DX versions somehow magically alters your video card hardware? Maybe the software rendering changes, maybe it doesn''t. I''m sure that Microsoft doesn''t pay their employees to sit down an rewrite the blitting code for every single DX version.
>2) People use other things than DirectDraw when writing games.
That has absolutely nothing to do with this - who cares what you use it for.
> 3) You can use your DX6-compatible video drivers with DX7.
What? Are you saying I can use DX6 for my DX7-required apps?
> 4) Newer versions of DX fix bugs found in previous versions.
And they also create new ones.
> Did I miss anything? Ah, yes. DX7 sports very different interfaces. It''s much easier to use, and it''s hard to learn to code both the old version and the new version. Most people just learn the latest.
Ok, I would like to to explain this. As I mentioned in my first message, it was in regards to 2d. Does the bltfast interface change? No. Does blt? No. Maybe new functions come with every new release, but who doesn''t use bltfast?
DX uses COM. COM is built around reusable components that ALWAYS stay the same. The calls don''t change.
To understand what I''m talking about, look at Starcraft. A newer (kinda) game that used the min usable version of DX -- 3. They could have went with 5, but why? They had the functions they needed.
Jim Adams
Game-Designer/Author
tcm@pobox.com
http://www.lightbefallen.com
http://www.basicelectronics.com
Yes, but Blizzard has the unique property of not being a "stupid newbie" developer, unlike a lot of people who seem to think using DX7 for DirectDraw is a good idea. My game uses DDraw, DSound, and DInput, and it only requires DirectX 3.
I should point out that there are no speed increases in newer versions, largely because if someone has DX7, their DX3 calls are going to thunk upwards (whatever the word for that is). You only really need 3 for 2D work. For 3D work, DX7 is understandable though.
I should point out that there are no speed increases in newer versions, largely because if someone has DX7, their DX3 calls are going to thunk upwards (whatever the word for that is). You only really need 3 for 2D work. For 3D work, DX7 is understandable though.
Blizzard probably had another reason for using DX3 for Starcraft (Though I was aware that they did) and that''s because Windows NT only support DX3 and will never get a higher version.
Personally I use the DX7. Though even if you develop with DX5 the enduser still get''s performance increase if they install DX7 drivers.
Personally I use the DX7. Though even if you develop with DX5 the enduser still get''s performance increase if they install DX7 drivers.
1) DX7 is faster than DX6 (one reason for end users to upgrade -- it''ll (most likely) make their other games faster).
2) People use other things than DirectDraw when making games (like Direct3D, DirectInput, etc. -- a reason for developers to use the latest version).
3) You can use your DX6-compatible drivers with DX7 eliminating the need to upgrade video drivers, sound drivers, input drivers, modem drivers, etc. (and making the end user''s upgrade hassle-free). You were talking about drivers, weren''t you?.
4) Newer versions fix bugs found in previous versions (why wouldn''t anyone upgrade?).
And that crack about COM? Did you see the DX7 docs about IDirectDraw7, IDirectDrawSurface7, IDirect3D7, etc. You can''t get pointers to previous interfaces through those objects -- they''re incompatible.
And most of the new bugs are with the new code (the latest version) and won''t affect games that use previous interfaces (like those in DX2, DX3, DX5, etc.).
Welcome to the real world! Why would ANYONE not upgrade to DX7? (That''s what you were ranting about, after all!)
- null_pointer
2) People use other things than DirectDraw when making games (like Direct3D, DirectInput, etc. -- a reason for developers to use the latest version).
3) You can use your DX6-compatible drivers with DX7 eliminating the need to upgrade video drivers, sound drivers, input drivers, modem drivers, etc. (and making the end user''s upgrade hassle-free). You were talking about drivers, weren''t you?.
4) Newer versions fix bugs found in previous versions (why wouldn''t anyone upgrade?).
And that crack about COM? Did you see the DX7 docs about IDirectDraw7, IDirectDrawSurface7, IDirect3D7, etc. You can''t get pointers to previous interfaces through those objects -- they''re incompatible.
And most of the new bugs are with the new code (the latest version) and won''t affect games that use previous interfaces (like those in DX2, DX3, DX5, etc.).
Welcome to the real world! Why would ANYONE not upgrade to DX7? (That''s what you were ranting about, after all!)
- null_pointer
Author
I''m afraid you need to re-read the first post - it does NOT say anywhere in it about not installing and using DX 7 run-time. It says about using the newest for the software development and function usage. If you program something that uses the blt function, why the hell do you need to use DX7 SDK? It exists in earlier versions and it is downright stupid to insist the end-user require 7 in order to use the functions that they could of used with DX3.
Other DX modules like DI, DP, etc also exist in earlier version, and as a matter of fact, not much has changed about those either.
Now, you also need to show me how DX7 is faster. In which aspects? Software rendering methods, hardware, which is it?
All in all, you have mistakenly assumed I meant the run-time libraries.
Other DX modules like DI, DP, etc also exist in earlier version, and as a matter of fact, not much has changed about those either.
Now, you also need to show me how DX7 is faster. In which aspects? Software rendering methods, hardware, which is it?
All in all, you have mistakenly assumed I meant the run-time libraries.
You were ranting about using the newest version of DX for development, requiring end users to always upgrade to the newest version of the run-time libraries.
I simply said (twice): who wouldn't upgrade to the latest version of the run-time libraries anyway?
This has everything to do with the post, because if end users used the latest version of the run-time libraries, there would be no inconvenience to them to use apps requiring the latest version.
(end of problem)
Do not try to make me sound like an idiot again. I don't like it. And by doing so, you only show your own lack of intelligence. Shooting down people's posts blindly is not a good way to communicate (which is the purpose of this forum!). If you have something to say, and you expect people to listen, say it nicely .
- null_pointer
Edited by - null_pointer on 2/14/00 7:52:53 AM
I simply said (twice): who wouldn't upgrade to the latest version of the run-time libraries anyway?
This has everything to do with the post, because if end users used the latest version of the run-time libraries, there would be no inconvenience to them to use apps requiring the latest version.
(end of problem)
Do not try to make me sound like an idiot again. I don't like it. And by doing so, you only show your own lack of intelligence. Shooting down people's posts blindly is not a good way to communicate (which is the purpose of this forum!). If you have something to say, and you expect people to listen, say it nicely .
- null_pointer
Edited by - null_pointer on 2/14/00 7:52:53 AM
quote:Original post by null_pointer
I simply said (twice): who wouldn''t upgrade to the latest version of the run-time libraries anyway?
Actually null_pointer, I won''t upgrade to DX 7. DX 7 on my computer is unstable. It''s a driver problem with my sound card (which is no longer supported), so I can either stay with DX 6 and not buy a new sound card, or buy a new sound card and upgrade. Money''s tight right now, so new hardware is out. Guess I''m stuck with DX 6. Which makes me an end-user who won''t play DX 7 requiring games.
null_pointer, even if most people upgrade to the latest run-times that doesn''t mean everyone will. more people will have at east dx6 than dx7 and more people will have at least dx5(all win98 users) than dx6 or dx7 and more people will have at least dx3 than dx5,6,or7. if you want the least chance of someone having to download dx drivers.. use the earlier sdk that supports everything you need. you can use the lastest if you feel like it. it''s all up to you.
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