I don't want to re-start another flame war, but maybe you should consider the fact that Pirate Lord's "rudeness" was, in reality, simply finally be willing to say the same exact things back too you that you had been saying too me for 20 years. Who is being more rude when they say those things? The people with 10 years of experience, or the people with 40? Which side, saying the same exact things back and forth to each other, is more justified in doing so? The side that has been doing this for 35 years, or the side that has been doing this for 70 years.

I am outnumbered here... 1,000 to 1. That doesn't mean that I am wrong. Really... All Pirate Lord is is me repeating back too you exactly what you have been saying to me right from the beginning... and in the beginning you were brand new at this and I had been doing it for a decade already. It's actually far more offensive and unreasonable when you say these same exact things too me. And I silently took it for 20 years before ever saying anything back.

Like I said, I don't want to start another flame war... but who has a right to be more insulted? I really don't think it is you.

And I won't be looking for another forum. Part of what this has been about has been transferring the blame to you. I realized right away that the only way anything would come of Rube was if I could make Territories, and I am not about to waste the last 20 years of my life banging my head against your brick wall all over again. So I have spent an entire year on this one effort to convince you. Knowing your industry the way I do, I expect to be ignored. I am not going through this again. If the very important discovery that is Rube is lost to humanity that is now ENTIRELY your fault. Not mine. I did everything in my power to give Rube to the world, but the world can only have Rube through my games.

If the arrogance of your industry will not allow the world to have Rube then the world will not have Rube. This 70 years of knowledge will be lost forever, and it is probably not coming back. That's entirely your fault now, not mine. I did everything I could to give it too them, but game designers are not allowed in the modern game industry... and you can't have Rube without game designers.

It might be best to do a bit of reflection. If you've been doing things the same way for 30 years, and not getting results, maybe it's time to start pointing the finger at yourself rather than at others. I know it's easier to blame others for your own failures, but if you really want to complete Rube, you're going to have to stop blaming others.

I have not been doing this for 30 years, I gave up on you and retired right here on GDN about 9 years ago. Until I discovered Rube I hadn't planned on ever coming back to making games again. I am not blaming anyone for failures, what "failures"? The fact that the computer game industry has always shunned real game designers is their "failure", not mine. I don't want this to become this again, so I will just stop no matter how inaccurate the comments are. The reality is all in the blog.

EDIT: What was I thinking! I have to let Neil have the last word, he does it so much better than I do.

"Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies,

But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be.

Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it,

For you, the blind who once could see... the bell tolls for thee."

Thanks for the help again, Professor Pratt!

If the very important discovery that is Rube is lost to humanity that is now ENTIRELY your fault.

No my friend, that's not how this works. Nobody has to execute your vision for you. You won't even fully detail what it is; you just keep reiterating how much experience you have, as if that means we'll accept you as the authority on game design. If your idea doesn't see the light of day, then it's entirely YOUR fault for not being able to work with people.

Also, stop calling us arrogant when you make statements like that. That is like the epitome of arrogance.

This whole thing has been hilarious.

Dude. Just take your meds, take your TimeCube-based board game, and get out.

It's amazing how every time you try to insult me you wind up describing yourselves perfectly, and it's never even relevant too me. How do you manage to be so flawlessly perfect at that?

At least we have managed to establish that you do not use game designers, and you honestly believe that "due to modern advances in game development anyone can make a game these days." You really are making progress... maybe next you'll move on to the next step of recognizing who and what the real game designers really are. You are only one step away from us now!!! That's the only light I see here so far... well, that and Cindy, of course.

You have always seemed to believe that all people make games equally and it is akin to racism to claim otherwise. If you ever get over that delusion... I will still be here.

Wow... Vladimir Lenin returned from the grave! I don't have any mental health issues, if you really do I hope you are doing well. But I don't think that is the case, I think these are just Lenin's tactics that are so prevalent in our society today.

What the heck, I probably wouldn't live long enough to make it to Armageddon even if I started making the games now. One more Cindy song, since it seems to fit so well here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNiHS7jWFos

...and now I really am done. Say whatever you want. If anyone out there thinks it might be a good idea to try an actual game designer for a change, who just happens through an accident of history to be carrying the 3rd generation torch of 70 years of game development, I will be here. If not... that comes as no surprise.

"Rube does literally plan the future, that is one of the primary ways that Rube functions. Rube plans to future of every Soul Rube in it's reality."-“Kavik Kang” (2017)

True, it's easy to plan the future of every object you control. The problem is that you can't plan for what the player does. So your game either needs to be a none player game or it's AI will be wrong 50% of the time or more.

"If the very important discovery that is Rube is lost to humanity that is now ENTIRELY your fault. Not mine. I did everything in my power to give Rube to the world, but the world can only have Rube through my games."-“Kavik Kang” (2017)

If Rube exists then by not releasing it to the public, you are responsible for Rube's fate.

The other thing to note is that if a discovery is needed, it happens. Before the world was connected things like: The wheel, pots, soap, shovels, hammers, knives, spears, bows etc. Where discovered all around the world, by nations with no contact. When the world is ready for Rube, it will be made.

What I don't understand is why if Rube is so perfect do you need a team?

"Rube does literally plan the future, that is one of the primary ways that Rube functions. Rube plans to future of every Soul Rube in it's reality."-“Kavik Kang” (2017)

True, it's easy to plan the future of every object you control. The problem is that you can't plan for what the player does. So your game either needs to be a none player game or it's AI will be wrong 50% of the time or more.

"If the very important discovery that is Rube is lost to humanity that is now ENTIRELY your fault. Not mine. I did everything in my power to give Rube to the world, but the world can only have Rube through my games."-“Kavik Kang” (2017)

If Rube exists then by not releasing it to the public, you are responsible for Rube's fate.

The other thing to note is that if a discovery is needed, it happens. Before the world was connected things like: The wheel, pots, soap, shovels, hammers, knives, spears, bows etc. Where discovered all around the world, by nations with no contact. When the world is ready for Rube, it will be made.

What I don't understand is why if Rube is so perfect do you need a team?This is where you are wrong

I don't want to continue any type of flame war anymore, but I will answer this.

This is one place where how Rube functions is alien too you. Rube works with what you do, it does not replace it. It is adapting our "treadmill of time" to the world of computers. Through decades of both ASL and SFB communities evolving this "treadmill of time" through these games, which are like "time in slow motion, under a microscope", we really have evolved a better understanding of simulating reality in increments of time than you have. Computers also work in increments of time, "moments of time containing reality". It is the same thing, computer simulations just run a lot faster, in real time.

It is my "Attached Board Game AI" that makes your first point moot. That is one of the things Rube would do for you, obviously from what you are saying here. Rube is organized very differently from how you go about this. In Rube's case saying that you "can't plan for what the player does" is not really relevant. Rube plans the future of the reality around the player. In my games this is always very simple, and "reality" consists of few elements... so this is easy. When you envision what I call "Ultimate Infinity Rube", one with all of its components having infinite capacity... this is what you are thinking of. Rube can eventually do that. Not my Rube, but his distant descendants will.

What the player does alters the future. If you do something that changes things for something else... that's what Rube does. What the player does is what guides Rube... "Attached AI". What the player does, and the decisions they make, is the very thing that is planning their own future. Time and reality combined look exactly like a god, and work like a god. They really do. As I said in the previous post, much of what you are not understanding lies within the "Soul Rubes" of my Attached AI and this right at the heart of what they do. Anything can have a Soul Rube, not just living things, anything you need to have one.

I can make a very simple version of the basis of Rube as a table top game, and that is what I am doing right now. But this is not the same thing, at all, as making a computer version of Rube. Rube was never meant for board games, Rube is bringing the AH/ADB way of making games to the computer. So I have to "reverse engineer" Rube back into being a board game, which is going to result in a demonstration of its most bare and basic function. A board game version of Territories is not at all like the computer game would be. They are very, very different things. This can't be done as a board game in any but the most simple ways, and as just a skeleton of that even. It's not really even Rube. I never wanted to make board games, I was always focused entirely on computer games.

Aardvajk: Not everybody else, what I've said here in this blog and my Gamasutra blog. Like I said a few posts ago, I spent 20 years trying it your way. I only became "Pirate Lord" after I gave up on you and it didn't matter anymore, I couldn't just walk away without at least speaking my mind. I have mentioned it but not stressed it. I am not entirely normal, I really am a "savant simulation designer". My "Attached Board Game AI" instantly came into my mind at 7 the moment I first saw "Payday". I am obssessed with games and simulations and due to medical issues have literally spent most of most days of my life playing games, or working on my own. I am not saying this in a bragging kind of way, this comes with the usual caveat of "not really very good at doing ANYTHING else". So I am trying one more time here, since I ran into Rube will my hobby of continuing to assemble the songs/story without ever thinking anyone but me would ever see any of it. This is all I can do, this is it. I spent 20 years trying this before and getting nowhere. These two blogs are the only idea I have for finally doing what I should have been doing since 1995.

"Computers also work in increments of time, "moments of time containing reality". It is the same thing, computer simulations just run a lot faster, in real time." -“Kavik Kang” (2017)

Computers run relative to time not faster or separate from time. If you rewound time, you would also undo the calculation.

If you meant a computer can read and execute a rule card faster than the average person, then yes that's true

"which are like "time in slow motion, under a microscope"" -“Kavik Kang” (2017)

Increasing the amount of problems to solve does not make solving problems easier, it only increases precision once solved. No idea why you thought breaking a step into more steps would help you.

"Rube works with what you do, it does not replace it. It is adapting our "treadmill of time" to the world of computers." -“Kavik Kang” (2017)

"Rube plans the future of the reality around the player."-“Kavik Kang” (2017)

Finally Rube is starting to make sense, so it's not a predictive system, it's a responsive system.

Rube takes player input then calculates a response, like any other game AI. Rube only predicts the AI's future and does so only in a linear and relative prediction, wasteful considering you will have to update each time the player takes action.

So because the above is done by almost any game ever, I assume that what makes Rube the next best thing, is your set of predefined rules.

Honestly it's all this, time and reality bull5#!t you are typing that makes it seam impossible, talking about time and reality, as if you think computers are free of it's laws.

"What the player does, and the decisions they make, is the very thing that is planning their own future." -“Kavik Kang” (2017)

See this is the bull5#!t I am typing about, this reads like it will know every thing the player is going to do from that point onwards. While in truth it will at best know what the player decided to do this turn and plan on how to counter it, like many existing AI.

"Rube was never meant for board games, Rube is bringing the AH/ADB way of making games to the computer." -“Kavik Kang” (2017)

Then considering you designed it for computers, I assume you know programming and computers. Then why do you need a team, when you could program a demo of Rube using Unreal, Unity or even gameMaker?

Because if Rube is that great it should work, even when there isn't much graphics to make it look good.

"When you envision what I call "Ultimate Infinity Rube", one with all of its components having infinite capacity... this is what you are thinking of. Rube can eventually do that. Not my Rube, but his distant descendants will." -“Kavik Kang” (2017)

It will reach that state when humans reach infinity, and by then they would have long ago abandoned the very idea of making something as pointless.

I want to point out again that to make infinity, you need infinity. Only a indestructible immortal or a existence outside of time, could ever even think of achieving infinity.

Besides players are mere mortals, infinity is very boring for a finite live form.

I wanted to leave a final word about Rube, and I did that. This last reply simply demonstrates much of what has already been said. Your level of game design knowledge is 35-50 years behind ours. As this last reply has again demonstrated, your level of knowledge of simulation design is so far behind ours that what we do now in 2017 is so far beyond your ability to comprehend that it is literally indistinguishable from magic too you. And in this last reply, you attempt to talk down too me as if I am a child and you are the master. It's really hilarious and sad at the same time that you are still attempting to talk down too me as if I am some kind of moron who is living in a fantasy world, especially considering the actual situation. This is, very obviously, so far beyond you that you aren't even capable of conceiving of it. You keep trying to frame it within your primitive understanding of simulation design which is, for the most part, not relevant to Rube. You are the young padawans, we are the masters... and you are still demonstrating your unfathomable arrogance in the tone of this last reply. Actually talking down to me as if I am some idiot child and you are the expert... about a subject that you have no frame of reference to even begin to understand. That's just how far ahead of you our decades older from of simulation design is, and you just can't understand that. World Class SFB players will have NO PROBLEM understanding Rube, you will NEVER be able to understand it as long as you continue in your indescribably arrogant insistence that you are the experts and we are babbling idiot morons that you should be talking down too like we are children. You are the children, we are the adults... and Rube is the proof of that. Here's an idea... stop talking down to the person who's work you are not even capable of comprehending and actually listen too them for a change. Really, this last reply is just sad. It really is. I can't believe that you are still talking to me like I am a child as you at the same time demonstrate just how far behind us that you are and always have been... indistinguishable from magic too you.

This blog was about the story, because I know that you can't understand Rube. You'd have to catch up on foundational knowledge to have any hope at all of understanding Rube. You really are that far behind us, you really don't know enough to even worry about Rube yet. You MUST understand AH/ADB as a pre-requisite or you will just continue to imagine irrelevant things like those in this last reply. There are lots of things I could say that would help you understand Rube that I am not saying because the SFB players would figure it all out from those things. As I have said many times now, I am intentionally NOT TRYING to make you understand Rube. If your industry wants Rube I am here and can easily give it too you. But I doubt you will, you've never cared about game and simulation design. In fact, you are offended by our existence. I've said all I am saying publicly about Rube. The world will have Rube through my games or the world will not have Rube at all. Since it is entirely up to the computer game industry, the world will probably not have Rube. You are too offended by our existence to have any interest in it, you'd rather stomp your feet and insist it does not exist so that you can continue to maintain your decades old delusion that you are the experts in this field... even though the height of the field is literally indistinguishable from magic too you.

So, babble about Rube all you want... in the end the reality is that it is too advanced for you to comprehend based on your primitive knowledge base that is 35-50 years behind ours. That is the answer, that is why it makes no sense too you. That is how far ahead of you we are. Deal with it instead of trying to talk down to your betters to make yourselves feel good. If you are going to attempt to talk down too me, then I will just talk down too you right back... and I am far more justified in doing so.

I had come here to post the next post below. Some more information as a present/bonus to anyone who has actually read the story. I am moving right now and will have trouble getting to the internet for the next month or so.

Since I decided to reveal No Leaf Clover, which I would hope anyone who might of read the story thought was pretty “cryptically cool” while revealing something of how the Kang/Cindy story arc ends. I think it is a pretty surprising ending to their joint story that is the opposite of what most would be expecting in a “they are complete opposites, I should have realized this all along” kind of way. I had intentionally made Cindy the feature of this blog in order to leave other major characters mostly out of it. I thought since I had put No Leaf Clover up it would be a great little bonus, and thank you to anyone who might have actually gotten into the story enough to at least vaguely understand the storyline the songs I have posted in this last blog post and comments tell without my saying anything else, to post one last song for you. And for those who haven't read it, maybe this last piece of the puzzle of the abridged Cindy story presented in this blog will make it all intriguing enough to inspire a few more people to actually read it. So I thought I would fill some of the key blanks leading up to No Leaf Clover.

So... meet Kavik Kang. Mikhail “Kavik Kang” Reznik ascends to The Void as Cygnus The Twelve during Hemispheres at the end of Mission (Game #6). From that point forward he serves as a firewall between Zeus & Hades and the Mortal World... the new “God of Balance”. Zeus & Hades can no longer influence the Mortal World directly after Mission and can only do so through the Eternal Guardian Cygnus The Twelve. Throughout the first time through the broken time loop Cygnus is practically controlled by Zeus & Hades but the reset of the timeline changes all of that and, just like No Leaf Clover says... “Don't it feel right like this? All the pieces fall to his wish.”. As you might imagine, that's not a good thing for the Mortal World. Cygnus was supposed to have been Zeus's choice, George “The Prime Nature” Washington, who is trapped in the Eternally Unstuck Reflection of the Dark Side of Armageddon that was created by the two nuclear strikes on large population centers that happen at the end of WWII of real history and The Hot War of Territories. The Prime Nature cannot be ascended as Cygnus so they are forced to settle for Hades choice, Mikhail “Kavik Kang” Reznik of the Pirate Dawn era of history. Let's just say that Kavik Kang winds up being about the worst possible choice to be Cygnus and leave it at that. Right from the beginning Kavik Kang is the problem, not the solution.

Of course, Clash of the Titans comes with a timeline segment covering the period between Mission and Clash of the Titans. One major story arc is explaining the aftermath of Hemispheres and Rocinante's mission to Cygnus X1. This song/movie is the visual ending of that entire story arc that happens in between these two games, which is why it comes essentially before the Clash story even begins. After Freddy Mercury says “The gods work in mysterious ways... mysterious ways...” at the very beginning of Pirate Dawn the gods only surface sporadically in the story from then on. Most of the time the player is left to determine on their own how, and which, of the “gods” might be behind any given event. Just like with “real gods”...

Every game of the PDU has both a trailer and post credits movie. These are usually related to the timeline stories between the games. No Leaf Clover is the post credits movie of Armageddon, the very last movie of the entire PDU story. It shows the “real” version of events between Kavik Kang/Cygnus and Cindy McAllen/??? (You can figure out who Cindy ultimately is from what is in this blog) that you had just seen a brief warped and twisted version of as a very small part, one scene really, of the final 30 minute long end story of the entire universe that happened before the credits. That story is disguised, warped, demented, and twisted by the Dark Side like Armageddon Chess is... the story has essentially come full circle back to where it all began in Armageddon Chess but it is the second time around so many things are very different. No Leaf Clover shows a more detailed “clear, real world” version of that one scene which is the end of the joint Kang/Cindy story arc. They both have their own story arcs, and a joint one together. They never actually meet, only in Kang's dreams, and Cindy hardly knows that Kavik Kang exists other than him having been a well-known figure during the piracy crises who became Cygnus The Twelve in The Void. In other words, she is his “Dream Weaver”, a term inspired by the song of the same name (that is the title/theme of Fallen Angel Rising) that was familiar to most people of my generation but has probably mostly fallen out of use today.

There is also a reference to “The Prophet” from Pirate Dawn in this song, “Resulting in the invention of that seer”, that would explain a lot about Marvin to someone who had experienced the entire story (much more than is on this blog), which is all connected to a vision Cygnus has as he ascends during Hemispheres. Part of what you see in Hemispheres is a segment called “The Nightmare of Cygnus” which is a vision of the Earth's sun exploding that Kang/Cygnus has while he is ascending. This is why “Apollo was astonished” and “Dionysus thought me mad”. Hopefully at least you Rush fans are liking this... The gods are not “stuck in time”, as JMS of Babylon 5 would say but the PDU doesn't directly ever use, and so this one line would reveal to a player that Marvin “The Prophet” had ultimately been an attempt by Cygnus to warn the Mortal World of his vision.

This post and song will make No Leaf Clover make a lot more sense whether you have read the rest of the story or not. Cygnus is still in charge when Armageddon happens because when the timeline resets it only resets for the humans. The “gods” of the PDU are aware that this has happened, but are not themselves affected by it. So the second time through the broken time loop Cygnus exists right from the beginning, but is now mostly free of the influence of Zeus & Hades and is almost completely in control. This is an issue that Cindy inadvertently caused at the end of Fallen Angel Rising as a part of what she needed to do in that story, and so she eventually winds up having to correct this problem that she unavoidably caused while fixing a bigger problem. This is just one major story arc of about 5 going on in Armageddon, it is not the biggest “most important” end of it all story arc. The primary story arc of the PDU is ultimately centered on the broken time loop, the Dark Side of Armageddon, and George Washington/The Prime Nature... not the “immortal characters” Kang, Cindy, and Andrea.

So I'll even say what is obvious from No Leaf Clover to anyone who has already read the story. In the end, Kavik Kang/Cygnus The Twelve is brought down by his own dream girl of the ages... who has a lot of identities through time and is ultimately a very important figure within “The Void”. He first became aware of, and somewhat obsessed with, Cindy McAllen during their mortal lives living through the piracy crises of Pirate Dawn. Even after thousands of years, Kavik Kang/Cygnus never gets over his mortal world teenage obsession with Cindy McAllen. Cindy's dream songs always have more than one meaning/interpretation, one of which is almost always Kavik Kang/Cygnus either dreaming or thinking about her. And in the end... she is the one who destroys him! I really love it, but then I'm a little biased. “Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel was just a freight train coming your way.”

For those of you who haven't read the story here, which might actually be all of you as far as I know, hopefully these cryptically vague end-story elements and song lyrics of this last blog post and its comments are all by themselves enough to interest some more people in reading the story. I have also included the Struggle of the Star Queens chess set with Armageddon Chess. That is a single, self contained, 16-page story that is its own short story within the PDU. That chess set doesn't rely on knowing anything else, although the Legend of the Ghost Fleet chess set makes a good prologue too it if you want a setup for the Star Queen story.

So, getting back to the actual point of this post... this is the very first movie that a player would see in Clash of the Titans, the game that comes after Mission. At the end of Mission Kang ascended as Cygnus, which is obvious from the Hemisphere lyrics so I am not actually revealing anything that isn't already revealed on this blog. This first song/movie of Clash of the Titans, before 2112 even begins, is where you really meet Cygnus The Twelve for the first time. This is not the Cygnus of the second time through the timeline and No Leaf Clover, this Cygnus is “newly born” and still under the control of Zeus & Hades. The first 01:20 of this movie is about Kavik Kang in the Mortal World before he ascends, everything after that is about Cygnus. The lyrics of this song are most of the definition of who Cygnus is, he was originally mostly defined as a character by this one song. That's why I thought it would be a good idea to add this to No Leaf Clover for you since I had intentionally left the two major “immortal characters” other than Cindy, Kavik Kang and Andrea Takahashi, mostly out of this. But No Leaf Clover is about Kavik Kang as much as it is about Cindy...

So this is the High Exalted One, The Rainbow Spirit, Eternal Guardian Cygnus The Twelve, Prime God of Balance. That's his full title. Zeus really has a thing for titles and he goes a little overboard with Cygnus:-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIulXSdRP6k

Unbelievable. Games should be made for fun, fun from playing and making them.

your level of knowledge of simulation design is so far behind ours that what we do now in 2017 is so far beyond your ability to comprehend that it is literally indistinguishable from magic too you.

hahahah omg

Can't we just make games?

If I ever find a way to make Territories... please remember how certain you were that it wasn't even worth making. You have no understanding at all of what I am even talking about, and yet you are certain that I must be a fool and you can't possibly be wrong. I can't possibly know anything about game and simulation design that you don't know... even though I have been doing it longer than your industry has even existed and what I do is based on 70 years of evolution. Is your arrogance really so profound that the above is really, truly, actually your response? You can't for a moment even imagine that someone with 40 years of experience, who's work is based on a 70 year history rather than your 35 year history, just might know a few things that you don't?

How about the Pirate Dawn lore files? I included those for a reason. The ships and fleets should be a slight hint too you of the difference between the hollow "kiddie cartoon" way you have seen a fleet of ships done in computer games and how the SFB Staff does it. There really is a very big difference that should be apparent from the lore files that only 15 people have even downloaded... none of you have even bothered to look at it. Just insults and ridicule to make yourselves feel better and to shout down the bad man who keeps saying things you don't like to hear.

Territories has had many names over the years. I like to call it "Warmonger Tycoon" because it is the most descriptive, but its real nickname has always been "Civilization Killer". Because that's what it has always been. Civilization is great for what it is, I love it. But what it is is "Axis & Allies II". It is what it is, and it is great for what it is. I really do love Civ and am not putting it down. But it is very, very simple. Remember who I am and what Rube is... the third generation of Avalon Hill, after 70 years of evolution. Civilization is a hex-based table top empire building game translated to the computer. It's entirely my realm, not yours. Right? You don't know hexes... Civ is really bad in a lot of ways because of that. Really bad. So I am not being arrogant or out of line when I say that Territories really makes Civilization look like Candyland... it really does.

I can't believe nobody is interested in this, considering the source it is coming from. Oh yeah, that's right... you have no respect at all for the source it is coming from. You've made that very clear for 30 years now. You can't tolerate the fact that we exist, so you... act like this.

It ain't easy being Rodney Dangerfield...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOgz8kM1VDg

No you don't. You can't stand us. You've been proving that for 30 years.