Wow, this is a long thread, and I havn''t read down through it yet so someone may have said this already, but I really like the idea of natural phenomena and weather. It''s not something I''ve seen in many games, let alone any RTS''s. It could be used well to help balance the various races in the game kinda like how Warcraft 3 used the invisibilty during the nighttime for the night elves.
3D terrain can be good. I like the warcraft 3 did their 3D, and the new game Impossible Creatures did it well too. I wasn''t too fond of Empire Earth though (maybe because of the high polygon count in the terrain and buildings.
RTS: stuff
I would personally love to see weather effects in RTS games ... but it does require that you don''t overdo it (storms should only strike every so often ...), be consistent (don''t have things strike suddenly and at random; increasing winds and a faint drizzle that slightly decreases the units'' sight radius might give warning of a storm that will render your archers useless), and be fair. Within the context of an RTS, it might be best to have your weather (be it storm, fog, or earthquake) effect the entire map in equal measures, lest random elements incapacitate one player, thus effectively killing the other(s) off by chance.
1. Sure, provided they''re well done.
2. Sure, again, provided they make sense and are implemented intelligently.
3. Will cows be flying around and doing damage to buildings? That''d be an unsuspected downside of natural phenomena...^_^ Seriously, I prefer non-random things. If it was a unit ability, go for it.
4. See above.
5. If it''s actually used and isn''t eye candy, sure.
6. This reminds me of a game called Dark Colony. The humans were more effective during the day and the Taar (aliens) were more effective at night. Better sight/combat, etc.
7. Don''t make it synch with real time. I don''t play games during the day so I''d have a handicap.
8. I don''t mind it, but it will not make me drool.
9. Uhh...doesn''t make sense.
10. Put it at the bottom and LEAVE IT THERE. Use a standard interface (map on the lower left, info in center, buttons on right). And make a LOT of hotkeys. Hotkeys good. No hotkeys bad.
11. Often they''re a distraction unless, for the animals, we can shoot them when we''re bored. Or, as in StarCraft, parasite them to gain their sight radius and so on.
12. Neutrals...I don''t care for ''em.
13. Heroes are bad. Heroes give a MASSIVE bonus to uber-l33ts that have played forever. I don''t mean a simple bonus like the person being better than the other poor Joe, but a quantifyable (sp?) advantage, and a gamebreaking one. A friend of mine has a maxed-out hero in WC3 and he can beat nearly everyone because of it.
2. Sure, again, provided they make sense and are implemented intelligently.
3. Will cows be flying around and doing damage to buildings? That''d be an unsuspected downside of natural phenomena...^_^ Seriously, I prefer non-random things. If it was a unit ability, go for it.
4. See above.
5. If it''s actually used and isn''t eye candy, sure.
6. This reminds me of a game called Dark Colony. The humans were more effective during the day and the Taar (aliens) were more effective at night. Better sight/combat, etc.
7. Don''t make it synch with real time. I don''t play games during the day so I''d have a handicap.
8. I don''t mind it, but it will not make me drool.
9. Uhh...doesn''t make sense.
10. Put it at the bottom and LEAVE IT THERE. Use a standard interface (map on the lower left, info in center, buttons on right). And make a LOT of hotkeys. Hotkeys good. No hotkeys bad.
11. Often they''re a distraction unless, for the animals, we can shoot them when we''re bored. Or, as in StarCraft, parasite them to gain their sight radius and so on.
12. Neutrals...I don''t care for ''em.
13. Heroes are bad. Heroes give a MASSIVE bonus to uber-l33ts that have played forever. I don''t mean a simple bonus like the person being better than the other poor Joe, but a quantifyable (sp?) advantage, and a gamebreaking one. A friend of mine has a maxed-out hero in WC3 and he can beat nearly everyone because of it.
Author
13. Heroes are bad. Heroes give a MASSIVE bonus to uber-l33ts that have played forever. I don''t mean a simple bonus like the person being better than the other poor Joe, but a quantifyable (sp?) advantage, and a gamebreaking one. A friend of mine has a maxed-out hero in WC3 and he can beat nearly everyone because of it.
I doubt you''ve ever played warcraft then, because heros levels are not permanent. You start out with a level 1 hero every game, and every game you level your hero. That''s what I meant by hero''s, a unit that does not carry over from game to game.
¬_¬
I doubt you''ve ever played warcraft then, because heros levels are not permanent. You start out with a level 1 hero every game, and every game you level your hero. That''s what I meant by hero''s, a unit that does not carry over from game to game.
¬_¬
Realism.
More realism.
Yet MORE realism.
*cough*
Thats my ideal.
It would require immense maps with thousands of units, along with deformable terrain(craters, etc).
Be at your scale.
Generals do not lead troops into battle.
So you arnt going to be hand-manging your troops.
You will manage battalions or platoons or armies.
Interface placement...hmm...
Customizeable, with default basically a SC/War3 interface.
It works really good.
Bugle4d
More realism.
Yet MORE realism.
*cough*
Thats my ideal.
It would require immense maps with thousands of units, along with deformable terrain(craters, etc).
Be at your scale.
Generals do not lead troops into battle.
So you arnt going to be hand-manging your troops.
You will manage battalions or platoons or armies.
Interface placement...hmm...
Customizeable, with default basically a SC/War3 interface.
It works really good.
Bugle4d
Seeing the birds and other animals you hear would be interesting. They could also be used as a way to tell where your opponents are. If you see animals running away from a certain area (because trees are being cut down, etc) you would know that something''s happening there.
Heroes are interesting, but I feel that WC3 overdid it. I have litterally lost a full sized army and a level 6 hero to one hero with level 10. At that point, it might as well be an rpg instead of an rts. Of course, in Starcraft, they made little difference, so there wasn''t much of a point in adding heroes to the mission, other than story line.
3D terrain is nice and all, but it slows down some older computers. My laptop is 1.5 years old, and it lags once the battles start. What I''d like to see is more gameplay and less showy graphics.
Heroes are interesting, but I feel that WC3 overdid it. I have litterally lost a full sized army and a level 6 hero to one hero with level 10. At that point, it might as well be an rpg instead of an rts. Of course, in Starcraft, they made little difference, so there wasn''t much of a point in adding heroes to the mission, other than story line.
3D terrain is nice and all, but it slows down some older computers. My laptop is 1.5 years old, and it lags once the battles start. What I''d like to see is more gameplay and less showy graphics.
* How do you feel about weather effects? (such as rain, snow or wind)
When I first... uhh... "bootlegged" the beta, I remember that I lost a lot. Like.... every game almost. However, one in maybe every ten games, you''d start up a game at lost temple, and it would be raining. The sound and special fx where very soothing to me. But they took this out during the retail, and I was very disapointed.
* How do you feel about weather effects effecting units? (and/or buildings)
Maybe rain should reduce sight range, but don''t screw around with it affecting movement. Most players find it piss-offing enough they can''t retreat by CLIPPING THROUGH other units, so weather would just be annoying. Bad idea to annoy your players.
* How do you feel about natural phenomena? (such as earthquakes, tornadoes, or cyclones. This also includes the common thunderstorm)
I didn''t like them in Sim City, again, no one wants to lose to their opponents, so don''t cause them more grief by making them lose because they built their castle on sand!!
* How do you feel about natural phenomena effecting units and buildings?
I said NO!!!
* How do you feel about a day/night cycle?
I like the idea, but blizzard did a real lazy job on making it effect the game. All that night means is you can sneak past the creeps. That was it. It was totally underused. If you are going to bother adding a cycle in your game, MAKE IT DO SOMETHING! (maybe units that have DIFFERENT spells during the night and day or Ultimate hero spells that can only be used at day/night... seriously... how can you use starfall at dawn if the stars go away? =-)
* How do you feel about day/night cycles effecting unit behaviour? (such as smaller sight radius, etc)
That is good and all, but just make it visually noticable what time of day it is. Also, just a suggestion, add a real time clock to the game under your day/night cycle so people know how many days have gone by (giving them a better sense of time judgement in game).
* How do you feel about game time (can be in sync with real time. eg, the option to show the day/night cycle (such as the sun/moon thing in warcraft 3, the real time, a clock, something.))
Then the Koreans would be is disagreement with the US and Europe would be half a day off.
* How do you feel about 3D terrain? How about 3D terrain that makes you drool?
Just make it look nice and I don''t care how how much depth it has. Adding things like mountains and plateaus into your game is fun, but don''t bloat your map full of them. In SC, it was often a pain in the arse to navigate your way around the map.
* How do you feel about terrain.. er.. elements? (such as water, resource integration (into tileset/terrain), hills, valleies, slues, etc)
Just make it look nice. That''s all that really matters. If you can get away with making good looking terrain without adding a "wheat field" terrain square, you do that.
* How do you feel about interface placement? (Most games have a rectangular interface, most games have it at the bottom, though some have it at the right or left side.)
It belongs at the bottom. Just look at Windows9x and UNIX-style GUI''s. They all have their task bars at the bottom. However, after a play learns the hotkeys for your game, the only use they have for on the GUI is to select their view on the minimap and deselect units from a group, so you could in theory even make POPUP menus for all unit commands.
* How do you feel about ambient sounds/music? Would you like to see birds (or appropriate animal/unit for tileset) flying around?
Waste of CPU cycles =-) Hehe, actually, just make sure they are noticable and that you have an option to disable them. Game music is always good, but for the love of Blizzard! make sure you have a decent sounding soundtrack! I HATED the music for war3. Maybe give each race multiple sound tracks later on so the player can cull the ones they don''t like (and then you can add more music in later patches... another reason to play your game =-)
* How do you feel about the involvment of neutral units in a rts? Such as creeps in warcraft 3.
Creeps are an important part of War3, but they do interfere a lot with pathfinding. So many times I am in battle, and my rallyed troops enter the "creep battle arena" (and usually lose). The creep''s have one super IMPORTANT purpose: THEY GIVE THE PLAYERS INCENTIVE TO LEAVE THEIR BASES. In Starcraft, you only left your base to A) expo or B) attack. If you don''t implement creeps, PLEASE, find a way to reward players for leaving their bases!!
* How do you feel about heros? (such as in warcraft 3)
Warcraft3 added to RTS''s 3 things as far as how battle played out:
1) Autocast spells. Now you don''t have to be a 6-armed Korean to be able to play like the pros! Good idea if you are going to give simple AI "use it or lose it" spells to the game.
2) Longevity of units. In SC, a battle with 8 vs 8 marines ended in seconds. One volley could kill a marine if they all targeted one unit. In War3, it''s like all units have 10x the relative amount of HP. Giving the human players a REALISTIC amount of reaction time to save their pitiful units'' lives.
3) Heros. Heros are probably the most important upgrade for RTS''s. They reduce the infamous "fodder effect", where each player repeats a refined cycles that goes:
1) Build army
2) Send army to death
3) Rebuild army
Now, with heros, you have more choices. Do you target the enemy''s hero to force them to retreat? If he catches on, he will retreat, and it may cost you more in the battle. What if he has a health potion? Then you''re screwed.
Oh well, that''s my 2 cents.
"You TK''ed my chicken!"
When I first... uhh... "bootlegged" the beta, I remember that I lost a lot. Like.... every game almost. However, one in maybe every ten games, you''d start up a game at lost temple, and it would be raining. The sound and special fx where very soothing to me. But they took this out during the retail, and I was very disapointed.
* How do you feel about weather effects effecting units? (and/or buildings)
Maybe rain should reduce sight range, but don''t screw around with it affecting movement. Most players find it piss-offing enough they can''t retreat by CLIPPING THROUGH other units, so weather would just be annoying. Bad idea to annoy your players.
* How do you feel about natural phenomena? (such as earthquakes, tornadoes, or cyclones. This also includes the common thunderstorm)
I didn''t like them in Sim City, again, no one wants to lose to their opponents, so don''t cause them more grief by making them lose because they built their castle on sand!!
* How do you feel about natural phenomena effecting units and buildings?
I said NO!!!
* How do you feel about a day/night cycle?
I like the idea, but blizzard did a real lazy job on making it effect the game. All that night means is you can sneak past the creeps. That was it. It was totally underused. If you are going to bother adding a cycle in your game, MAKE IT DO SOMETHING! (maybe units that have DIFFERENT spells during the night and day or Ultimate hero spells that can only be used at day/night... seriously... how can you use starfall at dawn if the stars go away? =-)
* How do you feel about day/night cycles effecting unit behaviour? (such as smaller sight radius, etc)
That is good and all, but just make it visually noticable what time of day it is. Also, just a suggestion, add a real time clock to the game under your day/night cycle so people know how many days have gone by (giving them a better sense of time judgement in game).
* How do you feel about game time (can be in sync with real time. eg, the option to show the day/night cycle (such as the sun/moon thing in warcraft 3, the real time, a clock, something.))
Then the Koreans would be is disagreement with the US and Europe would be half a day off.
* How do you feel about 3D terrain? How about 3D terrain that makes you drool?
Just make it look nice and I don''t care how how much depth it has. Adding things like mountains and plateaus into your game is fun, but don''t bloat your map full of them. In SC, it was often a pain in the arse to navigate your way around the map.
* How do you feel about terrain.. er.. elements? (such as water, resource integration (into tileset/terrain), hills, valleies, slues, etc)
Just make it look nice. That''s all that really matters. If you can get away with making good looking terrain without adding a "wheat field" terrain square, you do that.
* How do you feel about interface placement? (Most games have a rectangular interface, most games have it at the bottom, though some have it at the right or left side.)
It belongs at the bottom. Just look at Windows9x and UNIX-style GUI''s. They all have their task bars at the bottom. However, after a play learns the hotkeys for your game, the only use they have for on the GUI is to select their view on the minimap and deselect units from a group, so you could in theory even make POPUP menus for all unit commands.
* How do you feel about ambient sounds/music? Would you like to see birds (or appropriate animal/unit for tileset) flying around?
Waste of CPU cycles =-) Hehe, actually, just make sure they are noticable and that you have an option to disable them. Game music is always good, but for the love of Blizzard! make sure you have a decent sounding soundtrack! I HATED the music for war3. Maybe give each race multiple sound tracks later on so the player can cull the ones they don''t like (and then you can add more music in later patches... another reason to play your game =-)
* How do you feel about the involvment of neutral units in a rts? Such as creeps in warcraft 3.
Creeps are an important part of War3, but they do interfere a lot with pathfinding. So many times I am in battle, and my rallyed troops enter the "creep battle arena" (and usually lose). The creep''s have one super IMPORTANT purpose: THEY GIVE THE PLAYERS INCENTIVE TO LEAVE THEIR BASES. In Starcraft, you only left your base to A) expo or B) attack. If you don''t implement creeps, PLEASE, find a way to reward players for leaving their bases!!
* How do you feel about heros? (such as in warcraft 3)
Warcraft3 added to RTS''s 3 things as far as how battle played out:
1) Autocast spells. Now you don''t have to be a 6-armed Korean to be able to play like the pros! Good idea if you are going to give simple AI "use it or lose it" spells to the game.
2) Longevity of units. In SC, a battle with 8 vs 8 marines ended in seconds. One volley could kill a marine if they all targeted one unit. In War3, it''s like all units have 10x the relative amount of HP. Giving the human players a REALISTIC amount of reaction time to save their pitiful units'' lives.
3) Heros. Heros are probably the most important upgrade for RTS''s. They reduce the infamous "fodder effect", where each player repeats a refined cycles that goes:
1) Build army
2) Send army to death
3) Rebuild army
Now, with heros, you have more choices. Do you target the enemy''s hero to force them to retreat? If he catches on, he will retreat, and it may cost you more in the battle. What if he has a health potion? Then you''re screwed.
Oh well, that''s my 2 cents.
"You TK''ed my chicken!"
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