so now every gfx card manufacturer will get to write thier own compiler..
given that i have already found a number of bugs with nVidia''s CG compiler, and im sure we have all encountered bugs with MSVC, and other compilers, what are the odds of anyone being able to produce a decent system?
writing a good, optimized compiler is no easy task.
why not make graphics cards just like all other processors out there? they have thier own assembly language, and you use whatever-companies compiler to compile programs for thier cards.
I dont like the idea of being stuck with some higher level language.. its like saying, you can only code for the pentium5 in C#, it wont compile C,pascal,fortran,whatever code...
my whole point with the pentium thing, is that optimizing for one processor is also optimizing for others, and there isnt much need for seperate assmebly languages from my viewpoint. besideswhich, games are not like other products, they only stick around for a year or two. (so it doesnt matter (asmuch) if a new assembly language is introduced every year..) [iirc, when intel added thier complete outoforderexecution to thier compiler, they also found around a 20% speed increase when the code was run on 486''s.]
also, consider the increased effort factor in developing drivers for new graphics cards, and even worse, for any company trying to enter the industry, they would have to, not only build a complex processor, but also a top-notch compiler.
might aswell rename opengl to ATI_NVIDIA_GL..
(incidentily, i wonder who proposed this extension...)
oh and one last thing, as vember pointed out, the compile time issue, which actually doesnt seem so bad now, because CG programs tend only to be a few lines, but what about when CG programs get more complex, like some of the Renderman codes for movies, and even worse, optimizing compilers have a lot more thinking to do..
OpenGL 1.5's "Shader Language"
Do we really need this debate here as well?
The GLSlang is approved and will be implemented, a few meaningless threads in some forums wont change that..
If the vendors like, they can use the Opensource frontend compiler that 3dlabs gives away for free, then all the vendors fixes the bugs in the front end. The backend compiler is still up to each vendor to implement, but that shoudnt be much harder than ''compiling'' the asm language we have now, so i dont think it will introduce more bugs, and it alone wont cure the drivers either ( there are plenty of bugs in the ARB_*_programs of both vendors)
And gfx cards works a bit like all other processors. so you can take a C program and compile it to SPAC, motorola, and Intel. but you cant take ASM and do the same thing.. In that sence C language is a good thing.
I dont have a real opinion on whatever it should be in the driver or not, but i do know that the Opengl API is there to allow us to write the same program for all graphicscard, an exposed lowlevel vendor specific ASM language wont do that ( a highlevel ARB asm language might, but then you got compile problems in the drivers again)..
For more flamed information, please read the Advanced openglforum on www.opengl.org ( you find a thread with ~80 messages in the top 10 right now )
The GLSlang is approved and will be implemented, a few meaningless threads in some forums wont change that..
If the vendors like, they can use the Opensource frontend compiler that 3dlabs gives away for free, then all the vendors fixes the bugs in the front end. The backend compiler is still up to each vendor to implement, but that shoudnt be much harder than ''compiling'' the asm language we have now, so i dont think it will introduce more bugs, and it alone wont cure the drivers either ( there are plenty of bugs in the ARB_*_programs of both vendors)
And gfx cards works a bit like all other processors. so you can take a C program and compile it to SPAC, motorola, and Intel. but you cant take ASM and do the same thing.. In that sence C language is a good thing.
I dont have a real opinion on whatever it should be in the driver or not, but i do know that the Opengl API is there to allow us to write the same program for all graphicscard, an exposed lowlevel vendor specific ASM language wont do that ( a highlevel ARB asm language might, but then you got compile problems in the drivers again)..
For more flamed information, please read the Advanced openglforum on www.opengl.org ( you find a thread with ~80 messages in the top 10 right now )
true true, we don''t need a flamewar here as well, especially since we all want the same thing in the end. So we should keep it clean and intelligent. 
"also, consider the increased effort factor in developing drivers for new graphics cards, and even worse, for any company trying to enter the industry, they would have to, not only build a complex processor, but also a top-notch compiler."
Is there actually anything that would prevent third-party compilers that could be integrated in the drivers? (if the vendor allows of course) One could as an example make a glslang to ARB_VP/ARB_FP-compiler which would bring support to current cards.
"also, consider the increased effort factor in developing drivers for new graphics cards, and even worse, for any company trying to enter the industry, they would have to, not only build a complex processor, but also a top-notch compiler."
Is there actually anything that would prevent third-party compilers that could be integrated in the drivers? (if the vendor allows of course) One could as an example make a glslang to ARB_VP/ARB_FP-compiler which would bring support to current cards.
sorry guys, this was just the first place i heard about it..
to me, this just seems really stupid, but yeah, anyway.
and since most vendors dont have open-source drivers, i wouldnt imagine that making your own compiler for their cards would be easier (iirc there was some thread here recently about programming the GPU directly - i think the conclusion was : you dont have a chance)
anywho, all im saying, is that it would be great if that was the case for gfx cards too. that is, all video cards would have their own assemblies, and that you could then use some compiler to compile your Cg code to thier assembly languages, or if someone invents Pascalg you could use that, or whichever language ever comes along.
anyway, im working myself up again, so ill just shut up.
sorry guys.
edit:
the opengl topic that MazyNoc sugested covers all this except better, so if anyone else is interested/concerned i highly suggest reading it:
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/Forum3/HTML/010071.html
[edited by - aboeing on July 31, 2003 12:21:11 AM]
to me, this just seems really stupid, but yeah, anyway.
and since most vendors dont have open-source drivers, i wouldnt imagine that making your own compiler for their cards would be easier (iirc there was some thread here recently about programming the GPU directly - i think the conclusion was : you dont have a chance)
quote:
And gfx cards works a bit like all other processors. so you can take a C program and compile it to SPAC, motorola, and Intel. but you cant take ASM and do the same thing.. In that sence C language is a good thing.
anywho, all im saying, is that it would be great if that was the case for gfx cards too. that is, all video cards would have their own assemblies, and that you could then use some compiler to compile your Cg code to thier assembly languages, or if someone invents Pascalg you could use that, or whichever language ever comes along.
anyway, im working myself up again, so ill just shut up.
sorry guys.
edit:
the opengl topic that MazyNoc sugested covers all this except better, so if anyone else is interested/concerned i highly suggest reading it:
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/Forum3/HTML/010071.html
[edited by - aboeing on July 31, 2003 12:21:11 AM]
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