Quote:Original post by JohanOfverstedtyou can read it for yourself in the spanish news using babelfish
Where did you read that he was found guilty and convicted?
Freed Swede Says He Was Tortured in Guantanamo
Quote:BTW: The leader is about the different standards for "native" Swedes and ethnic swedes in the media and the populace as a whole. Ghezali was meant as an example because some people had said that they didn't mind him rotting a cell in Guantanamo.he is not questioning the accusations just saying that they are irrelevant. But they are TRUE. Read the spanish news links.
EDIT: I see that bella posted while I was writing this.. Appearantly he can't read Swedish. This is the correct translation.
Your sources are contradicting each other - one says he was convicted (unless Babelfish messes up with the translation - not unlikely), while this one says he wasn't:
Quote:För det andra har kapningen enligt Ghezalis advokat Peter Althin utretts av pakistanska myndigheter. Inga anklagelser har riktats mot Ghezali och Paki-stan har inte framfört några krav till svenska UD att Ghezali ska utlämnas om han friges från Guantánamo. Även bankrånet har utretts utan att Ghezali kunnat bindas till det."No accusations has been made against Ghezali and Pakistan has not presented any demands that Ghezali should be turned over to Pakistan if he is released from Guantanamo. The robbery has also been investigated, and Ghezali couldn't be tied to the crime."
Yeah! You just seem to trust the sources that says what you want to hear and ignore the others.
Btw, the swedish source nowhere states that he was guilty of the crimes. Rather that they failed to tie him to the crime.
Btw, the swedish source nowhere states that he was guilty of the crimes. Rather that they failed to tie him to the crime.
Quote:Original post by CoffeeMugQuote:Original post by Michalson
The guy in field picks up someone or the person is transfered to them from a corrupt local. ... soldier ...
Considering the situation, this seems very reasonable.
... to hold a innocent suspect 1 or 2 weeks maybe. Else it's a proof of military inefficiency. It should not be that hard for professionnals to sort the headmasters, the sargents, and the innocents or harmless in such a prisonner camp.
Is none innocent ? A taxi driver has been held in Guantanamo during 18 months. It was not his day. There was a taliban in his car, a guy he had never seen in any of his lives. Tortured too. But you know what, he still does not hate americans and still thanks them for fighting the talibans (with the weasels France and Germany just for rememberance). Lucky USA !
Quote:
I don't know... You're talking about professional interrogators. I've heard from first hand accounts that Russian interrogators are capable of cracking almost everyone in less than three days without the use of especially elaborate torture methods.
The soviets were great in using highly sophisticated methods of information. For instance having ministers or NATO officials as submarines. Else I am not sure the russians are great experts in such fields as efficient torture. I remember more the 'efficient' practices of self criticism.
Direct and immediate operationnal informations such as where is the fucking bomb, what's his real name, etc ... Why not. But then, to respond to this also :
Quote:
so I guess I missed something...
, maybe this old number of American Science that detailed a mathematical proof of torture inefficiency in several typical cases.
More generally I thought Guantanamo was meant to prevent a new 9/11. So the questions are rather : How's your hierachy ? How are your financial networks ? Who financed Harken and Carlisle and the 9/11ers (sarcasm) ? I am not sure it's exactly the role of pure militarians.
Torture is only efficient with additional informations. If the guy is a real tough guy, involved, you must play some poker. You must let him know that you know several things about him, so that he might not try to give half false informations.
But then what can you get from a guy caught randomly, when you get nothing about him from any other prisonner or from external sources during months ? Nothing valuable, except "K I am guilty, Ben Laden ... is in New Guinea maybe, not sure, I want to sleep". He may be a criminal, who knows ? That's called an innocent, generally.
Anyway what's the point of Guantanmo, two years after ? The value of any informations retrieved are quasi pointless. Meanwhile the polymorphic terrorist operationnal nebula will have been reshaped. None of the 'afghan' fighters held there have any clues on the financial networks. The white collars work somewhere else, certainly much closer to their worst ennemies.
My guess is Guantanamo is not only meant to treat informations in this direction, that is ear. It's probably more in the other direction, that is voice. Broadcast some message to the muslim masses and the world such as : "We don't give a sh't bout your human rights, fear us more than Allah, coz 9/11. Don't mess with Texas, coz 9/11. Or we don't need this BS UN, coz 9/11". Or I missed something.
Else I could add this tip for the new millenium. France tried torture in Algeria the previous millenium, it did not work.
Quote:Original post by Valdermanbut still you here now what happened?
The robbery has also been investigated, and Ghezali couldn't be tied to the crime."
Quote:Original post by balla_the_kingbut still you here now what happened?Ehh... What?Quote:Original post by Valderman
The robbery has also been investigated, and Ghezali couldn't be tied to the crime."
Quote:Original post by Charles B
The soviets were great in using highly sophisticated methods of information. For instance having ministers or NATO officials as submarines.
I'm fairly sure this isn't what you wanted to say. [smile]
Quote:Original post by balla_the_kingQuote:Original post by JohanOfverstedtyou can read it for yourself in the spanish news using babelfish
Where did you read that he was found guilty and convicted?
The El Mundo link is in Spanish, and according to this he was charged and spent time in jail.
The blog "Diario do Noroeste", your second link, is in Portugese, not Spanish.
According to it, "A PRESUMED member of the Al-Qaeda net was imprisoned in Portugal more than one year before the attacks of September 11 in the United States, but freed soon later." He's quoting a publication called Focus. Further he says, "According to the publication, Ghezali, 24 years, was imprisoned for about one year in the tourist region of Algarve, where he awaited trial* for two accusations of robbery of money and jewels. He was acquitted and set free of the arrest in August of 2000."
* Google couldn't translate this word but from the context I assume it means trial. Original word was "ulgamento"
I have corrected the translations to be more comprehendable. I don't think I've made any mistakes, but if you want to double check feel free to do so. http://www.diariodonoroeste.com.br/edicao/2002/08/01/sinopse.htm, translated
"A PRESUMED" was capitalized in the source, but I think it was a misplaced paragraph, not an emphasis.
Emphasis on aqutitted was placed by me and the original word was "absolvido" which seems very much like absolved to me.
So far 2 out of 3 of your OWN sources have contradicted you.
Quote:Original post by Raduprv
I think that is an urban legend.
Not the particular case I'm talking about. It's not about "some guy", coming from "some other guy", so this story isn't just hearsay but comes from first hand account. I'm pretty sure that person wouldn't lie.
Quote:Original post by Raduprv
No one that I know was tortured in Romania (which had pretty much the same regiem as USSR) for not paying their bills.
If someone is picked up by the cops in russia, they're legally allowed to hold him for 48 hours (I think they can get a 48 hour extension by the judge). From hundreds (even thousands) of first hand accounts, people ARE being tortured, regardless of their crime in question.
Quote:Original post by Raduprv
Also, even if this is true, most likely the guy invented a crime just to get away from the torture.
No, he brought them to the body and showed them the crime scene. This crime was definetly not made up.
This topic is closed to new replies.
Advertisement
Popular Topics
Advertisement
