Ten games every designer should play
Normally I dont play many rts games but with the discussion over starcraft and total annihilation I have to add my favorite, Kohan. While the single player sucked and some of the game mechanics werent well tuned the design of the units system was fantastic. Instead of individual units there were companies of 7 units that could go into formation and be controlled as a single unit completly removing micromanagement issues. These companies could also be led by a hero that could be found in the game. For resources each unit cost a certain amount to build (you could only build them whole companies at a time) but each unit required certain resources per minute. All of the recources were done per minute and if you were in the negatives (one of your main cities was taken while you had many units) then money would be taken and eventually your units would die.
Quote:Original post by ksehNo, you learn to write well by writing as much as possible and soliciting unbiased feedback - releasing your material to writers' groups (Gotham Writers Guild in NYC is one such), publishing it to independent magazines and collectives. Reading and studying the works of other writers will turn you into a poor copy rather than an interesting artist with a voice all his own.
If you wanted to be a writer you would want your readers to get the most out of your work. You do that by learning to write well. You learn to write well by examining the works of other authors. Especially the ones held in high regard.
Which is exactly the problem with video games. Far too many of them too closely emulated existing or preceeding games, which has the plus of providing familiar launch points for the veteran, but the huge minus of alienating the newcomer. And there are still way more newcomers than veterans.
Quote:Original post by KazgorothWhile you may be able to play basketball in real life, can you play in the NBA? Can you coach or manage an NBA franchise? While you can drive a car in real life, can you drive the Indy 500 or Le Mans? While you can fly a plane - a Cessna, for example - in real life, can you fly an F-18 fighter on a mission for the US Army? While you can wield a sword in real life, can you wield it in battle against orcs and ogres and demons and various other vile enemies?
I don't really like the whole concept of sports games personally - these are things you can attempt in real life - sure, you might not be as good as you could be in a game, but you'll get real benefits in fitness in addition to the fun of playing.
What's the difference? Because I sure as hell don't see it, and I tire of the narrow-minded excuse that "you can just go outside and do it." Clearly, you can't.
Quote:Original post by capn_midnightYou're right, but it doesn't change anything else I said.Quote:Original post by Oluseyi
Not a single sports game on anyone's list. Interesting.
Bollocks, I mentioned Tecmo Bowl, Bases Loaded, Blades of Steal, and Gran Turismo (not "Grand Turismo" or "Gran Tourismo") long before you joined the thread.
Here are some games that designers really need to look at for inspiration:
VS System (CCG) - Simple rules that allow for really deep and engaging gameplay. Incredible game design. A design/development team that actaully cares about what the consumers have to say. And its got super heroes.
Magic the Gathering (CCG) - I cant vouch for the game now but back when i used to play (about 9 or 10 years ago) it was great for the same reasons that i mentioned for the VS system, only instead of superheroes it had mages and dragons.
Star Chamber (PC) - Takes gameplay features from board games and CCGs and successfully combines them into a simple yet deep gameplay experiance.
XCOM: UFO Defense (PC) - What an amazing game. So deep its not even funny. Turn based combat that actually creates a bit of tension and occasionally startles you. Go play this if you havent already.
Final Fantasy Tactics (PS1) - Another amazing game. Cusomizable characters. Cool abilities and super deep combat. Three dimensional battle field that was as much a dynamic in combat as the characters were. If it had a multiplayer mode it would be perfect.
Street Fighter 2 Turbo (Various) - Capcom has YET to produce a better fighting game. Interesting characters that played very different from one another. Aproachable yet deep fighting system. Near perfect play balance.
Castlevania: SotN (PS1) - Side scrolling perfection. Period. Weapons have secret moves, spells with street fighter like inputs, two huge explorable castles, secrets galore, etc...
13 Dead End Drive (Board Game) - Wow, was this game fun. May not get any awards for anything and it was time consuming to set up, but man was it a joy to play with a good group of people.
Heroclix/Mage Knight (Miniature Board Game) - Why balance a character to some standard of characters (like fighting games have to) when you could instead justifly them to a point system instead? Rules problems notwithstanding, this game has some design ideas with great potential. And its got Super heroes.
Tomb Raider 1 (PS1) - While the graphics are quite herrendous the exploration and puzzle solving themes are solid. Too bad the later games are so horrible...
Zelda, any except for part 2 (Various) - Gameplay perfection. Exploration, puzzle solving, fighting, rpg elements, these games have it all. I feel sorry for anyone who hasn't experianced the brilliance of this series of games.
Metroid, any (Various) - Same as above.
Mario 3 (NES) - This game is just as relevant today as it was when it was released, and just as fun. Even after so much time you'd be hard pressed to name a platformer thats better. Here's the sad thing: i dont think there ever will be.
The Squaresoft golden age games (Chrono Trigger, FF4-FF6, etc...) - Great games that really show how to have great gameplay in a genre that generally focuses on story instead.
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain (PS1) - Definitaly not because of its derivative and simple gameplay but instead because of the way it tells an incredibly cool story integrated into its gameplay and its great voice acting (a rare achievment in the game industry).
Super Smash Bros. 1 & 2 (N64 and Gamecube) - You might think that this is a relatively simple party fighting game, that is until you spend a couple hours hooked into it. Another example of simple game design that is incredibly deep in execution. I wish more fighting games were like this.
Twisted Metal Black (PS2) - Car combat at its best. Special moves, unique super moves, stellar graphics, this game has it all. Now if it only had the level design of vigilante 8 it would be perfect.
War of the Monsters (PS2) - Its too bad that so many people missed out on this gem. Incredibly fun game with a unique split screen system and FULLY destructable environments.
Beyond Good & Evil (PS2) - Mature themes handled in an elegant way, all with a strong female (fully clothed) protagonist. This was a great game and its really a shame that it was virtually ignored in retail. See my comments on Zelda for why this game is so good.
I know that was more than 10 but ah well.
Here are some examples of games or features that DONT need to be copied or studied:
Fighting games without online play - I refuse to buy another fighting game without online play. Period. Ok, maybe not period b/c im gonna buy Tekken 5 but after that, Period!
More Cinema then Gameplay (MGS1-3 in particular) - I recently rented MGS3, turned it on, and then proceeded NOT play the game for about 15 minutes. How silly is that? Did i rent a movie or a game?
Strategy game without multiplayer support - If it doesn't have some kind of multiplayer support it just got relegated to "rental" status.
FPS games with the same feature set as the last 10 FPS games - How many versions of Medal of honor are they gonna release?
Sports games with no real innovations - I love football, but am i the only one that notices EA is selling the same game every year for full price?
RPG's where i have to go to a "Battle screen" to fight - This design feature is so outdated.
Thoughts, comments?
Peace.
VS System (CCG) - Simple rules that allow for really deep and engaging gameplay. Incredible game design. A design/development team that actaully cares about what the consumers have to say. And its got super heroes.
Magic the Gathering (CCG) - I cant vouch for the game now but back when i used to play (about 9 or 10 years ago) it was great for the same reasons that i mentioned for the VS system, only instead of superheroes it had mages and dragons.
Star Chamber (PC) - Takes gameplay features from board games and CCGs and successfully combines them into a simple yet deep gameplay experiance.
XCOM: UFO Defense (PC) - What an amazing game. So deep its not even funny. Turn based combat that actually creates a bit of tension and occasionally startles you. Go play this if you havent already.
Final Fantasy Tactics (PS1) - Another amazing game. Cusomizable characters. Cool abilities and super deep combat. Three dimensional battle field that was as much a dynamic in combat as the characters were. If it had a multiplayer mode it would be perfect.
Street Fighter 2 Turbo (Various) - Capcom has YET to produce a better fighting game. Interesting characters that played very different from one another. Aproachable yet deep fighting system. Near perfect play balance.
Castlevania: SotN (PS1) - Side scrolling perfection. Period. Weapons have secret moves, spells with street fighter like inputs, two huge explorable castles, secrets galore, etc...
13 Dead End Drive (Board Game) - Wow, was this game fun. May not get any awards for anything and it was time consuming to set up, but man was it a joy to play with a good group of people.
Heroclix/Mage Knight (Miniature Board Game) - Why balance a character to some standard of characters (like fighting games have to) when you could instead justifly them to a point system instead? Rules problems notwithstanding, this game has some design ideas with great potential. And its got Super heroes.
Tomb Raider 1 (PS1) - While the graphics are quite herrendous the exploration and puzzle solving themes are solid. Too bad the later games are so horrible...
Zelda, any except for part 2 (Various) - Gameplay perfection. Exploration, puzzle solving, fighting, rpg elements, these games have it all. I feel sorry for anyone who hasn't experianced the brilliance of this series of games.
Metroid, any (Various) - Same as above.
Mario 3 (NES) - This game is just as relevant today as it was when it was released, and just as fun. Even after so much time you'd be hard pressed to name a platformer thats better. Here's the sad thing: i dont think there ever will be.
The Squaresoft golden age games (Chrono Trigger, FF4-FF6, etc...) - Great games that really show how to have great gameplay in a genre that generally focuses on story instead.
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain (PS1) - Definitaly not because of its derivative and simple gameplay but instead because of the way it tells an incredibly cool story integrated into its gameplay and its great voice acting (a rare achievment in the game industry).
Super Smash Bros. 1 & 2 (N64 and Gamecube) - You might think that this is a relatively simple party fighting game, that is until you spend a couple hours hooked into it. Another example of simple game design that is incredibly deep in execution. I wish more fighting games were like this.
Twisted Metal Black (PS2) - Car combat at its best. Special moves, unique super moves, stellar graphics, this game has it all. Now if it only had the level design of vigilante 8 it would be perfect.
War of the Monsters (PS2) - Its too bad that so many people missed out on this gem. Incredibly fun game with a unique split screen system and FULLY destructable environments.
Beyond Good & Evil (PS2) - Mature themes handled in an elegant way, all with a strong female (fully clothed) protagonist. This was a great game and its really a shame that it was virtually ignored in retail. See my comments on Zelda for why this game is so good.
I know that was more than 10 but ah well.
Here are some examples of games or features that DONT need to be copied or studied:
Fighting games without online play - I refuse to buy another fighting game without online play. Period. Ok, maybe not period b/c im gonna buy Tekken 5 but after that, Period!
More Cinema then Gameplay (MGS1-3 in particular) - I recently rented MGS3, turned it on, and then proceeded NOT play the game for about 15 minutes. How silly is that? Did i rent a movie or a game?
Strategy game without multiplayer support - If it doesn't have some kind of multiplayer support it just got relegated to "rental" status.
FPS games with the same feature set as the last 10 FPS games - How many versions of Medal of honor are they gonna release?
Sports games with no real innovations - I love football, but am i the only one that notices EA is selling the same game every year for full price?
RPG's where i have to go to a "Battle screen" to fight - This design feature is so outdated.
Thoughts, comments?
Peace.
To reiterate a previous poster, I believe the board game Go should be included within the list.
Go is a strategy game similar to chess, while looking more like othello.
Go has very few rules. [essentially: Black plays first. Stones surrounded are captured. The player with the most empty space surrounded wins. (and the rule of ko)] It's noteworthy, that despite these very few rules, the game quite deep and is 'unsolvable' by computers. Futher, computer AI for the game is currently, and for the forseeable future worse than any master level human. It also is debatably the oldest game still played, clocking in at around 4000 years.
Go is a strategy game similar to chess, while looking more like othello.
Go has very few rules. [essentially: Black plays first. Stones surrounded are captured. The player with the most empty space surrounded wins. (and the rule of ko)] It's noteworthy, that despite these very few rules, the game quite deep and is 'unsolvable' by computers. Futher, computer AI for the game is currently, and for the forseeable future worse than any master level human. It also is debatably the oldest game still played, clocking in at around 4000 years.
Perhaps not the greatest games ever, but Deadly Rooms of Death, IVAN and Jumper Two are interesting games indeed.
Quote:Original post by Telastyn
To reiterate a previous poster, I believe the board game Go should be included within the list.
It's on my to-do list - thanks for the additional info on it.
Does anyone know the name of the Chinese chess game? (not the chinese drawers named Go, thank you very much...)
I agree with alot of the game posted, but I'll mention Ninja Gaiden. First it was in arcade form which was later ported to the Atari Lynx. Then reinvented with a different gameplay dynamic thru the NES. Then completely and most successfully resurrected and reinvented thru the XBox and is one of the most gorgeous, well played games to date. So yeah... Ninja Gaiden (the series).
your going to get a lot of different views..
Final Fantasy VII - many people will understand ;)
Tomb Raider I - best concept and good story (spoiled in later series(
Dino Crisis 2 - excellent action game (no other equal action game)
Wip3out - epitome of perfection and design
Parasite Eve 1 - brilliant story concept
Abe's Oddesey - original and great gameplay/style (fmv's are good too :))
Command and Conquer: Red Alert
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Quote:Original post by Anonymous Poster
Does anyone know the name of the Chinese chess game? (not the chinese drawers named Go, thank you very much...)
Do you mean the Chinese chess game Xiangqi?
Or the japenese chess game Shogi?
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