Quote:Original post by lightbringer
Fallout does not have classes, only abilities, skills, and perks.

Heh. Fallout could have had classes. It's just that everyone was a Warrior.

A non-violent player could usually get by without fighting using dialog, and could thieve now and then. But nearly everyone else in the game was armed with a gun or spear.

The one thing I thought was missing from Fallout was a computerized network to be exploited. I know we're dealing with a post apocalyptic situation, but that would have added a lot to the game for me. I'm still waiting for my new modern day sci-fi samurai/shaman/hacker RPG.

Quote:Original post by Rattrap
It's called Shadowrun ...

If it wasn't for the Sega Genesis console game, I wouldn't even be here talking about game development. It's not the Shadowrun trademark, or the character races, or the story, or the johnsons or runners. It was the dialog, the combat, the hacking, the 'job' missions, and the hiring of thugs. Things that cannot be licensed by Microsoft. The cyberpunk atmosphere. So I'm still waiting.

Quote:Original post by Kest
Heh. Fallout could have had classes. It's just that everyone was a Warrior.

It's hard to survive in a post-apocalyptic environment, you know [wink]

There was a bit of a computer network in Fallout 2. Well, not really. There was an opportunity to mess with the Enclave's systems from a number of points in the game, and of course there is that skynet brain ^_^;

But in the meantime, try the original System Shock if you haven't yet. That's got lots of cyberspace.

Quote:Original post by stenny

Quote:Might I suggest Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fable, Fallout, Ultima Online, EvE Online, and Dungeon Siege?

Have yóu ever played them? Oblivion uses classes, and so does morrowind (not sure about the rest). In oblivion you can choose them after you've finished the "tutorial". In morrowind you can choose them if you're of the boat and talk to the old man (forgot his name).

~ Stenny

Yeah, the "classes" in the Elder Scroll games are not classes in the usual sense, they're just a group of skills that the game picks for you if you don't want to pick them yourself. Most skill-based systems call this a "pregenerated character" or something similar. In all TES games you can pick your skills manually if you want. The fact that you can type in a class name doesn't make it a class-based system.

Quote:
AFAIK, one character in 7/8 of those titles has the skill definition of one "class" in Diablo II. Take all the skills in D2 and put them into one class and give the option of definition at that level and then you're got something. Add in actual depth in gameplay and skills more diverse that "shoot a frost arrow" or "shoots a fire arrow" and you're cooking with fire.

I don't understand what you mean. That all the example games don't have enough skills and spells to choose from? Personally I think they have enough; I don't really want to sort through a list of 7 million skills every time I get a few XP to spend. Additionally, most skill-based games are built to support a wide variety of common archetypes, which D2 didn't. D2 opted for somewhat weird and specialized characters fit to the lore and setting of the game, which is one of the strengths of a class-based system.

Fallout might not have had classes, but it might as well have.
The vast majority of missions in the game had 3 ways of beating them: they could either be solved through stealth/stealing, combat, or dialogue.
The players who had the easiest time would be those who specialised in one of those three fields, leading to your classes: thief, warrior, or diplomat.

Quote:Original post by Extrarius
Classes just make things easier - point buy can complicated.

I guess there are a lot of different designs that go beyound class or no class systems.

The picture I had in my head is of a game where you don't really buy points, you level them up in the game. Your maximum abilities wouldn't be limited by a class. Your progress to maximum ability would be slower in some areas because of a class. And the progress difference could be as little or as much impact as you want. With a good balance, you have characters who specialize. With a bad balance, you either have over specialization or a world full of no-type clones.

In real life, we have the warriors, the geniuses, the artists, the never-give-up guys, the seducers, and the leaders. Then everyone else, like me, who is trying to do more than one thing at a time, who really doesn't excell majorly in any one subject.

To be honest, if your game is really fun, I don't think any of it matters a whole lot. I've had plenty of fun with a large variety of different systems. If you expect this part of the design to make or break your game, you better get back to work.