Quote:Original post by LessBread There have been around half a dozen threads on the topic since July. Some of those threads have gone on for a long time, but that is something quite different.
Are you including this one or not ?
You again appear to be implying that LessBread is the instigator here. I can't wrap my head around the fact that you do not find this quote, which apeared before LB ever mentioned Israel, to be the source of the introduction of Israel
My intention was to show that LessBread's 'six' figure was incredibly short-sighted, not to blame him for the situation in this thread.
That being said, if I had to take a few names out of a hat when it comes to bringing politics where they do not belong, his name, along with yours, CoffeeMug's and StickAndStones' would appear, rightly or not, in this biased list.
I'm pretty sure that I've never done such a thing. I've made almost 1500 posts here in the last three years, and I surely can't remember them all, but that's just not the kind of thing I'm inclined to do. My first response, as always, would be to challenge you to produce an example or two of the worst offenses of me introducing politics into a thread that was previously politics-free. Given the nature of this thread, however, this one time I'll just let my word stand against another poster's publically-stated perception, and leave it at that.
nothing is politics free ofcource, so i dont think this can ever be settled objectively, but ill have to agree with jfclavette: you are the second person to come to my mind in this regard, with lessbread leading by a fair margin however.
I wouldn't say that *nothing* is politics-free, even in the Lounge, but I agree that there would be a good degree of subjectivity in making the determination. That's why I said "worst examples", and would let any interested parties make up their own minds if such examples (if they can be produced) illustrate the point or not.
I still say that I've rarely, if ever, done such a thing, but as I said to jfclavette, I'm not going to argue it here. Anybody who thinks this is a cop-out is free to start a "The Master List of BerwynIrish Introducing Politics Into A Thread" thread, but I doubt anybody has that great of an interest in the matter, myself included.
Quote:Original post by Funkymunky Uh, no cap, I read your post in whole. That's a clever way to turn it around on me though...
I don't understand the quotation of your own post that you just gave... I actually quoted you on those last two statements, and responded to them. And the first two are the parts that offend me... you've been "seeding" the lounge with what you think should be here? Glad to know that your posts are directly intended to "fix" the problems around here, whereas mine are probably just more garbage. And "emulate your idiom?" A little pretentious, don't you think?
...lack the reading comprehension? Sorry if I was honest and up front with you. I didn't realize what a moron that makes me.
That's because it is about you, because you're blatantly misrepresenting what I originally wrote.
When you said: "Who are you to lay down groundrules for how the lounge needs to be?! If you haven't been having fun with the community here, don't try to enforce the changes you think need to be made;" That was in direct contradiction to my original post when I stated: "I'm not the end authority on what should happen around here... or perhaps I'm full of shit" And when you said: "just post something you like in hopes of inciting a meaningful discussion" that amounts to a suggestion from you that I: "[seed] the Lounge with the types of threads that I think should be here..." The list is thusly the way in which I am trying to do that, because the fact is, I've violated every single one of the items on my list at some point in the past.
And when people complain about the Lounge sucking, I suggest to them to "emulate my idiom*," i.e. "[seed] the Lounge with the types of threads that [you] think should be here..."
*unfortunately misused, I meant "style unique to myself" when an idiom is a "style of speaking unique to a specific culture". That brings up #10, don't be so pedantic about every little detail . This is live posting, we don't spell check everything. Sure, AOL-speak is horrible, but a few misspellings and mistaken uses (as long as it is corrected when found) here and there are unimportant. It also brings up #11, be more willing to admit when I'm wrong, in this case, the use of the word "idiom"
I do rather wish people would stop with the off-topic political debates in unrelated Lounge threads. If it concerns you that much, use PM or open a new thread. I don't care who started it, either. This, in fact, is something I would like the staff to handle (unlike, say, length of a thread).
gsgraham.comSo, no, zebras are not causing hurricanes.
* In regards to Capn_midnight's OP, I've been here a tad longer, and I more or less agree, to a certain extent with him. In those days the community was smaller. Smaller communities are more pashionate about their subject mater, and that was all it was, more pashionate people, which led to larger flame wars and heated debates. After a certain time spent on a place like gamedev, you get institutionalized, in the sense that you know starting goatse threads is a bad thing, post-your-desktop threads are boring, and "language X is teh sh1t!!" will only bring a 10-page long thread that will get closed with nothing being learnt...
* I've told a moderator or two to fuck off. (yes, I wrote fuck off, I cant abide people that put little asterisks on words, as if that would dimish their meaning). My personal opinion of Oluseyi that he is far "drier" than most of the moderators and users of the site. He seems to have a shorter fuse for stuff others would deem "fun", because I guess, in his line of work, you're already seing the train derail 3 pages from now, so he closes the thread at a time when none can find fault with it. When all is said and done moderators arent here to entertain us, or agree with our threads and posts, but to simply moderate, and it would be better if we could de-humanize them. Don't let people know who is moderating what. Behind the curtain moderators would still moderate, but there would be no fingers to point at when my "My anus is bleeding" thread gets closed... just a job title "moderator of the strange illnesses thread"...
* In regards to political threads, and pretty much any thread that requires close scrutiny and atention of all involved, invariably it reaches a critical mass where it becomes so volumous that no one is left with enough energy to persue it. Any points that where being drawn out and made in the first 5 pages are already forgotten in the 10th page, and because people dont bother reading it all, we have a phoenix-effect, where things already discussed are rekindled...
* Self-Moderation. The technology is there, we know, we're programmers, we code it everyday. Self-moderating forums, where users can tag the discussions, rate other users, point out offensive language or imagery, etc. In the end its still the moderator that closes threads, assigns bans and warnings, but with more tools. Its more scalable this way.
In the end its pretty futile to try to steer this ship. This is an ant hive. There is no such thing as a leader. You can lay ground rules, yes, of course, any system has them, but like any fluid, it obeys the laws of pressure, if you keep trying to enclose it, it will explode in your face, and it has become pretty obvious to me, that recently the more "the lounge is no longer what it used to be" threads pop up, the MORE will pop up.
Yes, for a short period there, the lounge was marvellous, everyone had an opinion, everyone else was wrong, people laughed with threads with the word "vagina" in the title and no work was geting done. Cruzades where started and pilgrims where drawn together for those massive fights, where the future of the Matrix was decided. We had a Need! We needed to know which was best, OpenGL or DirectX! Why did toasts and cats fall down like they do? And it was so obvious Java would rule the planet, that people started spiting on C++ coders. "I've got a garbage collector beotch!".
But now that all the questions have been answered, people need to cut those emotional ties they seem to have created towards the lounge, and procure their daily dosage of levity elsewhere. We, as a group, have matured. Isn't maturity reached when we don't seem to have as many questions to answer?
Moderators and the staff should work to keep the right of the users of the forums to word their thoughts, and voice their questions, as long as it doesnt "attack" the "mental space" of others, in others words, no goatse, hitler/jew jokes, pictars of teh naked ladies... and enforce its own internal ruleset, which exists to make this place eficient. No single worded threads or ill-titled threads , as I've seen people ask for DirectX help by having their threads titled "I got some last night".
In the end, we have this system, the forums, where everyone is allowed to step in and comment on any subject, even if you have no authority on the matter. It's like entering a subway car and shouting "ok people! I want to have a meaningful 4 minute chat about the science behind Tokamak reactors, are they the solution to our energy problems, or are they too late?"... and then we get all surprisedly pissy that the conversation has no structure, or leads nowhere. As teenagers enjoy saying: "like... dude... duh!".
Sorry for the x-treem long post and the miriads of grammar errors, I hope I've made it funy enough to be digestable [wink]
I agree with the above poster. Of course, I would vote Trees but that's just me.
I really think that a Politics/Religion subforum would offset a bit of the traffic to the lounge. Heck, it would probably be easier to moderate: command and conquer and all that.
hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia- the fear of big words
Quote:Original post by Dmytry Why did you make this post?
Because I tried to make a point that I don't want to see two dozen threads about Israel bombing Lebanon, someone who tried to blow up a plane with a bottle of water, republicans trying to steal the election with their evil diabold machines, and a bunch of other garbage that I can find on the front page of top technie news sites. These threads aren't interesting. The debates aren't insightful. They add no value to GDNet. And yes, I think a lot of people are being very racist when they spend hours and hours debating and covering Israel and make only a passing comment about Darfur. And no, I'm not trying to supress topics I don't like. Seriously, stop reading into what I said so much and take it at face value. At this moment in time there is too much of this crap in the lounge. People get tired of beating a dead horse. Smart people leave the community.
You're doing it in this thread. Stop. The last book I've read was "Into Thin Air". I am now reading "Godel, Echer, Bach". For the past couple of weekends I went climbing to an indoor gym and during the week I've spent time in boxing and yoga classes in the local gym. Let's discuss that. Or anything else. Just stop with the liberal crap already, there has been so much of it I can't bare reading active topics, slashdot, reddit, or digg. I'm learning different programming languages instead and reading technical papers. If you want all smart people to leave GDNet one by one because they can't stand it any longer, keep talking about politics.
As someone who in his heyday basically survived off the lounge, I'd like to fully endorse your ideas. When I was a daily contributor the lounge was all about fun and creativity. One of the only reasons I started the whole "netify" project was to promote the creativity of the lounge and the regulars in it. Jokes were funny not crude, religo-political discussions were kept at close bay, and coldacid was posting really odd pictures of himself that Salsa and crew couldn't keep from Photoshopping. Life was fun, humorous, and the lounge had a different feeling to it. I'm not disappointed with the lounge right now because I've been away from it for ~2 years for the most part. It just definitely doesn't feel the same.
Quote:Original post by Dmytry Why did you make this post?
Because I tried to make a point that I don't want to see two dozen threads about Israel bombing Lebanon, someone who tried to blow up a plane with a bottle of water, republicans trying to steal the election with their evil diabold machines, and a bunch of other garbage that I can find on the front page of top technie news sites. These threads aren't interesting. The debates aren't insightful. They add no value to GDNet. And yes, I think a lot of people are being very racist when they spend hours and hours debating and covering Israel and make only a passing comment about Darfur. And no, I'm not trying to supress topics I don't like. Seriously, stop reading into what I said so much and take it at face value. At this moment in time there is too much of this crap in the lounge. People get tired of beating a dead horse. Smart people leave the community.
You're doing it in this thread. Stop. The last book I've read was "Into Thin Air". I am now reading "Godel, Echer, Bach". For the past couple of weekends I went climbing to an indoor gym and during the week I've spent time in boxing and yoga classes in the local gym. Let's discuss that. Or anything else. Just stop with the liberal crap already, there has been so much of it I can't bare reading active topics, slashdot, reddit, or digg. I'm learning different programming languages instead and reading technical papers. If you want all smart people to leave GDNet one by one because they can't stand it any longer, keep talking about politics.
You're exaggerating the number of threads on those topics and following that up with examples that disprove your point. From the list of things that you've been doing, it appears that "lowering the quality" of the lounge (as others have put it) has been beneficial to you, so why the gripe? If you want to discuss "Godel, Echer, Bach", indoor climbing, boxing, yoga, alternative programming languages or various technical papers that you've been reading, then by all means start a thread about those subjects rather than complain that others aren't doing it for you. How many times must it be pointed out that no one is forced to click a link they don't like? If supposedly smart people are leaving because they don't like the titles they see, yet they aren't creating new titles of things they want to see, well, then maybe they aren't that smart?
"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
Quote:Original post by Dmytry Why did you make this post?
Because I tried to make a point that I don't want to see two dozen threads about Israel bombing Lebanon, someone who tried to blow up a plane with a bottle of water, republicans trying to steal the election with their evil diabold machines, and a bunch of other garbage that I can find on the front page of top technie news sites. These threads aren't interesting. The debates aren't insightful. They add no value to GDNet.
interestingly, there's something politically common about all discussions you listed as uninteresting.
Quote:
And yes, I think a lot of people are being very racist when they spend hours and hours debating and covering Israel and make only a passing comment about Darfur.
What do you think about that simple, realistic reason why there was long discussion about israel? [btw i see you only talked about Darfur as to support your view on Israel.]
Also, it just happened that you are part of set of "people who are contributing to debate about Israel", even if you prefer to say you aren't. Worse yet you are doing trolling (calling other side racist for arguing at all) to make debates longer.
Quote: And no, I'm not trying to supress topics I don't like. Seriously, stop reading into what I said so much and take it at face value.
Reating too much into what you said? Reading too much into "(why do *you* hate Israel so much?)" maybe?
Quote:
At this moment in time there is too much of this crap in the lounge. People get tired of beating a dead horse. Smart people leave the community.
You're doing it in this thread. Stop. The last book I've read was "Into Thin Air". I am now reading "Godel, Echer, Bach". For the past couple of weekends I went climbing to an indoor gym and during the week I've spent time in boxing and yoga classes in the local gym. Let's discuss that. Or anything else. Just stop with the liberal crap already, there has been so much of it I can't bare reading active topics, slashdot, reddit, or digg. I'm learning different programming languages instead and reading technical papers. If you want all smart people to leave GDNet one by one because they can't stand it any longer, keep talking about politics.
you are part of the people who are discussing lebanon, do you understand? or you honestly are so politically biased that you don't understand this simple, obvious fact? It also happens that the kind of suppositions you make, are itself "debatable".
See, say, there's thread about Dafur. Few people say how it's bad and talk a bit about badness, discussion dies out, because there just isn't many who disagree, therefore there simply *can't be debate* because debate needs several groups that disagree.
Discussion about USA, Israel, or Denmark even, or Latvia (gay parade thing), pick any other more or less industrialized country that happens to make big news: few people say how it's bad, few other people say how it's good, make justifications with which other people highly disagree (often more disagree with justifications than with Israel's action in first place) and there's long, 50+ page debate between these people who disagree with eachother, length being proportional to how long it takes until everyone gives up. Do you think my explanation of how debates works is wrong, flawed or something? Or you don't understand that debate is at least two sides arguing with eachother? But no that's too simple explanation, and i see you prefer to like to think that the whole thread was only nazi ranting about israel's badness for 50 pages ("debating israel"). Which wasn't the case. abovementioned israel thread
rest of your post: Lessbread answered it well. To summarize: see, rather than starting thread about Godel, you're making another thread be about Israel. You, forum member, demand forum to be more intelligent and unpolitical than you is.
[Edited by - Dmytry on October 9, 2006 3:04:54 AM]
