youve obviously never played online poker. First of all, theres virtually no adapting required. If you have a strategy that takes into account your opponents playing skills (which can be based on raw stats about them) you can do fine. When I play, except for my tilted game, Im basically a machine. And I make decent money doing this.
This would in no way pass the turing test. The programs only function is to play poker. True, it would probably do awful against any pro (although with a big enough neural net maybe not), but on a low limit table with a bunch of idiots, it should be able to make a lot of money. A simple learning algorithm should be more than capable of learning to play online poker. Maybe it would be limited to play at "low" stakes, but the player skill level doesnt significantly change until you get into $3-$6 limit. At 25-50 cent limit I was able to make a steady 5 dollars an hour per table.
Also, so what if players adapt? Their adaptions can be modeled by statistics about their recent playing style. If you have a program that collect stats on players, and another than uses these stats along with pure odds to find the best actions, I dont see how it wouldnt work. Given enough time to train on a diverse enough training set, it should be able to learn the game better than most humans.
Its impossible for the casino to lose money on a poker game.. they take a % of each pot. It could possibly be illegal, or morally questionable, since in a way I am taking advantage of the other players (although Im doing that normally anyway).
retrieving data from a poker table
Author
and another thing, computers can do plenty of things better than humans, including many games. Why would a computer that plays poker well even come close to passing the turing test?
Also, my program will adapt also (since it uses neural nets it will even resemble human adaptation). If I allow it to train off real games, it will learn how to play against a wide variety of opponents.
Also, my program will adapt also (since it uses neural nets it will even resemble human adaptation). If I allow it to train off real games, it will learn how to play against a wide variety of opponents.
My 2 cents as a casino/poker system developer
I doubt this is illegal in a general sense however any decent poker system will have stated in their Terms & Cond that it is illegal in their poker system to use any form of bots. So if they catch you they can and probably will take all the money you made and split it up among all the players you have played with.
Bots are a very serious problem for poker networks because it destroys the trust the players have in the system. The same goes for all game bots. Be it quake, world of warcraft and the like. If a player don't trust that he will have a fair game he will move to another system.
Good poker bots are actually a lot harder to create than chess bots. The new goal in AI is to build a perfect poker bot. The reason being that everything is know in chess, all rules and the whole board. This is not true in poker. Since you can bluff and you have a number of hidden cards.
On the subject on card counting. Almost all forms of card counting is null and void in online casinos since they randomize the deck after each game played. Nothing an real casino can do. Well unless they use the fancy shuffling machines.
Then we have hacks and flaws in the system that you use to your own advantage. The solution to those problems are stated in most T&C. If you find a flaw in the software that you know is an error that gives you money and you don't report it. You can be responsible for not just damages but could even be deemed to pay to fix the problem. This thing is of course something the operators would never use except in extreme cases where the money amount lost far outweighed the PR hit the system would take.
I doubt this is illegal in a general sense however any decent poker system will have stated in their Terms & Cond that it is illegal in their poker system to use any form of bots. So if they catch you they can and probably will take all the money you made and split it up among all the players you have played with.
Bots are a very serious problem for poker networks because it destroys the trust the players have in the system. The same goes for all game bots. Be it quake, world of warcraft and the like. If a player don't trust that he will have a fair game he will move to another system.
Good poker bots are actually a lot harder to create than chess bots. The new goal in AI is to build a perfect poker bot. The reason being that everything is know in chess, all rules and the whole board. This is not true in poker. Since you can bluff and you have a number of hidden cards.
On the subject on card counting. Almost all forms of card counting is null and void in online casinos since they randomize the deck after each game played. Nothing an real casino can do. Well unless they use the fancy shuffling machines.
Then we have hacks and flaws in the system that you use to your own advantage. The solution to those problems are stated in most T&C. If you find a flaw in the software that you know is an error that gives you money and you don't report it. You can be responsible for not just damages but could even be deemed to pay to fix the problem. This thing is of course something the operators would never use except in extreme cases where the money amount lost far outweighed the PR hit the system would take.
Author
well actually, I never actually followed through on this but online blackjack tables only use 2 decks and allow you to sit and up to 5 seats at once. It seems like the extra information of being able to view over 11 cards might be enough to push the odds in your favor (since theyre already very close).
As for creating a poker bot, I doubt mine will be closed to perfect. However, I do expect it to pick up on certain strategies like bluffing, check raising, etc after enough training.
As for creating a poker bot, I doubt mine will be closed to perfect. However, I do expect it to pick up on certain strategies like bluffing, check raising, etc after enough training.
If you're serious about doing a poker bot, take a look Charles Bloom's work here (he's a very talented programmer IMO).
Also check out Poker Academy and their work on poker bots.
Say hi to Henrik S the next time's he's home from the Caribbean.. ;)
Also check out Poker Academy and their work on poker bots.
Quote:My 2 cents as a casino/poker system developer
Say hi to Henrik S the next time's he's home from the Caribbean.. ;)
As for the OP's question I did some work related to that (not for the purpose of making a bot though).
I managed to sucessfully "spy" on party poker clients, getting all the info I needed.
First try, I captured the image X times a second and did image analysis to get the information that I needed (I also read the chat window control).
This worked very well but required the window to be fullt visible (since windows doesn't "draw" things that is behind other windows).
Then I discovered hand history files!
This is basicly a log of all action on the table and I was mighty suprised to find out that the log was saved in real time (this is the simplest way of doing it I guess).
So for my second attempt I sucessfully parsed the real time log file.
The aim of the exercise was to create a program that displayed a live poker game in 3D, in real time.
We had a customer that does internet and TV broadcasts from some of their high stake tables.
In the end they didn't had the energy to go through with the project and stuck with their 2d client.
In this buisness people are making to much money to make an effort...
"why change anything while you're still making a lot of money out of it?"
I managed to sucessfully "spy" on party poker clients, getting all the info I needed.
First try, I captured the image X times a second and did image analysis to get the information that I needed (I also read the chat window control).
This worked very well but required the window to be fullt visible (since windows doesn't "draw" things that is behind other windows).
Then I discovered hand history files!
This is basicly a log of all action on the table and I was mighty suprised to find out that the log was saved in real time (this is the simplest way of doing it I guess).
So for my second attempt I sucessfully parsed the real time log file.
The aim of the exercise was to create a program that displayed a live poker game in 3D, in real time.
We had a customer that does internet and TV broadcasts from some of their high stake tables.
In the end they didn't had the energy to go through with the project and stuck with their 2d client.
In this buisness people are making to much money to make an effort...
"why change anything while you're still making a lot of money out of it?"
If you get caught using a bot on a poker site that doesnt explicitely allow them, they will not take your money and split it up with the people you played against.
They will take your money and simply keep it for themselves. This is compelled by logic on their part as it is against their best interest to admit that they have a bot problem.
...
As far as having so many network inputs.. thats just crazy.. find a way to generalize.
Personally I would go for standard actor/critic machine learning with exploration.
They will take your money and simply keep it for themselves. This is compelled by logic on their part as it is against their best interest to admit that they have a bot problem.
...
As far as having so many network inputs.. thats just crazy.. find a way to generalize.
Personally I would go for standard actor/critic machine learning with exploration.
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