Can saving/loading anytime actually ruin the challenge?

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101 comments, last by Kest 15 years, 10 months ago
There's a player bias that scales the damage that unlimited save and restore can cause gameplay. I think the biggest part of that bias is choosing between content versus interactivity. Those who are against save and restore live for the moment more than the future (or past). It's not worth reaching game content if the game is too lousy to play with its own rules to get there.

And now, I'm officially done sticking my opinion in everyone's face.

Quote:Original post by stonemetal
Quote:Original post by Kest
The majority of people, the people doing the fighting, would be completely uninfluenced by the choice to use a nuke when things got too messy.


Oh but we did push the button when things got messy with Japan. It was only after other countries got their own button that we got hesitant to push it.

I'm not getting your point. What lesson does this teach us?
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This thread has been most interesting and, I think, very informative. ^_^

Quote:Originally posted by Kest
Death, as in losing all of your health, can inflict negative consequences without leading to a game over


What would you suggest for a game such as F.E.A.R, or, perhaps better, a World War 2 game? I would imagine that loss of health should probably result in some form of death mechanic, but I don't think that all games are well-served by resurrection or a brief knockback, either physically or in terms of gameplay ability; at least, I don't seem to be seeing any satisfying alternatives to a game over screen or reloading. :/

(My apologies if I missed such a suggestion somewhere within the thread. ^^; )

Personally, and with such games as RPGs, F/TPS games and survival horror games most in mind, I find myself most convinced by the concept of frequent autosaves, with no manual saving feature. I also very much agree that a "quit-and-save" feature can be a very good idea (in the case of RPGs that forbid saving during battle, I would suggest that quit-and-saves be allowed during battle nevertheless, I think).

Specifically, the system that I have in mind uses two layers of autosaves:

The first saves frequently (or perhaps based on passage through the level or world), at most measured in minutes, I think. Each autosave would be assigned to one of a limited number of slots, overwriting the oldest save first when all slots are full. This provides a short-term recall facility.

The second layer saves infrequently, but keeps all such saves. These would probably be placed to fire just prior to major events, particularly difficult challenges, or reasonably significant decisions.

Depending on the game, the major save points may or may not be transparent to the player.

I do think that the player should perhaps be given some indication of how often these save points are made in order to reduce anxiety that may be felt over how far back the last autosave was (as I think that I might experience). Of course, simply playing the game for a little while, seeing the saved game list, and experiencing its use, might help with this.

As a gamer, I don't recall any games that I've played in which I've been happy about having a classic sparse save-point mechanism - in fact, I usually find it rather annoying (I think that I've used the word "detest" at times). I also don't think that I've been bothered at all by having and making frequent use of quick -saves and -loads - in fact, I believe that I'm more often glad of it.

I think that I simply have a fairly low tolerance for repetition of experiences due to failure, and more so the more often they are repeated, the more content is re-trodden and the less re-plays vary, I believe. I tend to want to move on with the game, and see what's next, I think.

I also like to explore options at times. In adventure and RPG games, for example, I might make use of saves to explore untaken branches of conversations. I've done this when I've been uncertain of the eventual outcome of a conversation, for example.

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Quote:Original post by Thaumaturge
Quote:Originally posted by Kest
Death, as in losing all of your health, can inflict negative consequences without leading to a game over


What would you suggest for a game such as F.E.A.R, or, perhaps better, a World War 2 game? I would imagine that loss of health should probably result in some form of death mechanic, but I don't think that all games are well-served by resurrection or a brief knockback, either physically or in terms of gameplay ability; at least, I don't seem to be seeing any satisfying alternatives to a game over screen or reloading. :/

Silent Storm was based on world war 2, and allowed total resuscitation from any type of death, given that an ally is around to aid them. But when the hero dies, its game over. It didn't make much sense to already have an established safety net, but avoid using it for no apparent reason. Apparently, the fact that it had unlimited saving was reason enough for the designers not to care.

For survivial horror, where player death is important, I would combine an autosave/checkpoint system (which doesn't let players know when the game has been backed up) with unlimited quit-and-resume. After all, survival horror would rarely ever inflict a challenging portion of gameplay that needs to be repeated to proceed. The checkpoints would most likely only be re-visited when the player gets snuffed on spooky corners, which they won't fall for more than once.

Quote:I think that I simply have a fairly low tolerance for repetition of experiences due to failure, and more so the more often they are repeated, the more content is re-trodden and the less re-plays vary, I believe. I tend to want to move on with the game, and see what's next, I think.

If the game isn't going to allow the player to experience all types of failure without booting them from the game, then it will be more annoying to not have the ability to save any time you wish. The point is, you don't repeat gameplay for failure. You live with it, and move on. Some types of games would work great with this philosophy (Oblivion), and some would just be terrible (Final Fantasy). Linear games would obviously have the most trouble with it.

Quote:I also like to explore options at times. In adventure and RPG games, for example, I might make use of saves to explore untaken branches of conversations. I've done this when I've been uncertain of the eventual outcome of a conversation, for example.

I like to do the same thing, but that doesn't mean it enhances the game. That type of interaction is more like a loop-hole in the game world's solidity than a gameplay feature, if you ask me. If you know you can't take it back, it makes the dialog actually mean something. You have to commit to your decisions, rather than just testing with trial and error.

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