If we're talking about applying special relativity to a game, you also need to consider the breaking of conventional simultaneity. Specifically, two observers in different inertial frames of reference have their own timeline in which they will disagree about the timing - and even the *order* - of spacetime events. Imagine how hard it would be to maintain an authoritative server in a multiplayer game in which events can occur out of order for players depending on their relative locations and speeds.
Incidentally, for the curious, the equations for relativistic speed and time dilation are based on Lorentz transformations. Suggest Google.
Interstellar travel
Quote:Original post by PKLoki
If we're talking about applying special relativity to a game, you also need to consider the breaking of conventional simultaneity. Specifically, two observers in different inertial frames of reference have their own timeline in which they will disagree about the timing - and even the *order* - of spacetime events. Imagine how hard it would be to maintain an authoritative server in a multiplayer game in which events can occur out of order for players depending on their relative locations and speeds.
Incidentally, for the curious, the equations for relativistic speed and time dilation are based on Lorentz transformations. Suggest Google.
You mean General Relativity? Special Relativity is only for constant velocities and one direction.
My thoughts.
Lightspeed and relativity time dialation. And the need for FTL
It's about games.
* first with games you have to aim at what audience?
A ) Casual to hardcore those large audience have no problem with fiction FTL.
B ) Simulation Serious gamers accademici NASA people those like sience over the top. Avoiding fiction FTL. Niche amrket.
* Multiplayer vs singleplayer. Time acceleration is a problim if you want Mplay. You must bend and twist hard your game concept to fit scientivic STL in your gameplay mechanics.
* Timedilation is a problem to. your game must fit this fenomina. Goes bad with Trading.
It comes clear you have to make a lot of choices.
As stated before to travel 5 lightyears in 1 hour you need 42720 * Lightspeed. Fictional FTL is a must. Lightspeed is to slow for interstellar games. If you want to reach the stars. Without to much restriction to gameplay mechanics.
To solve the lightspeed game problem you can go for
Fiction and you are in need of FTL
For realisme avoiding FTL you may choose to.
Resctrict game space. Around one star. Most interstellar prefering gamers loose interrest.
Avoid Mplay so you can cheat boredom with time acceleration. Most gamer value Mplay a lot.
Go for a very specific gameplay style that fits this realism well. Most gamers loose interrest. Because realism is no priority one by the masses.
Another point. If avoiding FTL fiction you restrict yourself to current scientific level of engines and craft. It wuold not make sens to judge FTL so hard. But with power generation or engine solutions, go very fictional. This leads to a Spaceshutle based game, would be a very niche game. Play field would be the earth orbit and it's moon. Because for current tech Sol is to large.
Or some fictional current earth tech vessel. Maybe reach Mars in a year or so.
the game play is micro managing your vessel. But that is also fiction
with that.
If you value real lightspeed and relativity in your game you alienate yor game from a large audience. Restrict your game on many point of interrest for gamers. Unless your part of that niche market and want to develop a simulation game for your audience. Go for it.
I am more of those, influence with populair scifi and thus IP like.
Startrek starwars stargate farscape firefly andromeda Battlestar galactica etc.
With fiction you reach a bigger choice of gameplay style wich some of them more chance to reach a larger audience. and keep online play and realtime and coöp open for use. And a lot of people are used to such IP's So a fictional universe established like those with FTL solutions. Most people exept easy.
I realy do like Realisme over the top. But lightspeed is so extreem to handle and to merge in a game. And distances are even more extreem then lighspeed is fast. I take realism so far as fun gameplay can handle it. And reaching a large audience with it. Lightspeed relativity theory I would axe. To much problems
And by the manny IP's I do like to explore the universe.
So interstellar travel with FTL is a must for reaching a large audience who want to explore the stars.
So keeping to Sol is like avoiding FTL fiction to keep real sience high. At what cost, you limit your game to sol. While in reallife there is some sientific focus on exoplanets. And most what interrest people to scifi IP are the aliens. Where firefly is a exeption IP. But I don't expect space faring aliens in nearby stars within 50 Lightyears or so. Unless Life must be very common in the universe.
Or your game is focused on kolonisation of nearby starsystems. Where traveling years is speed up by a ingame time jump to a game event like reaching a star.
looking at most space games. So far i know they are scifi oriented even often not using newton combat physics. Some wich are very scientific aimd suffer from boring gamers with long travel time.
I am for a while focused on the space exloring genre. Taking current IP and games as inspiration. I sertenly would avoid real speed of light physics. And solve that with FTL fiction.
Movie TV IP I take would be
Stargate and firefly and BSG and space above and beyond startrek
Games. A merge or mix of
Mass effect Universal combat X3 TC freelancer startrek fleet commander and bridge commander. homeworld
Most people are not into science theory or simulation. But lots of them like scifi. And play games. But no simulations.
That my opinion.
Lightspeed and relativity time dialation. And the need for FTL
It's about games.
* first with games you have to aim at what audience?
A ) Casual to hardcore those large audience have no problem with fiction FTL.
B ) Simulation Serious gamers accademici NASA people those like sience over the top. Avoiding fiction FTL. Niche amrket.
* Multiplayer vs singleplayer. Time acceleration is a problim if you want Mplay. You must bend and twist hard your game concept to fit scientivic STL in your gameplay mechanics.
* Timedilation is a problem to. your game must fit this fenomina. Goes bad with Trading.
It comes clear you have to make a lot of choices.
As stated before to travel 5 lightyears in 1 hour you need 42720 * Lightspeed. Fictional FTL is a must. Lightspeed is to slow for interstellar games. If you want to reach the stars. Without to much restriction to gameplay mechanics.
To solve the lightspeed game problem you can go for
Fiction and you are in need of FTL
For realisme avoiding FTL you may choose to.
Resctrict game space. Around one star. Most interstellar prefering gamers loose interrest.
Avoid Mplay so you can cheat boredom with time acceleration. Most gamer value Mplay a lot.
Go for a very specific gameplay style that fits this realism well. Most gamers loose interrest. Because realism is no priority one by the masses.
Another point. If avoiding FTL fiction you restrict yourself to current scientific level of engines and craft. It wuold not make sens to judge FTL so hard. But with power generation or engine solutions, go very fictional. This leads to a Spaceshutle based game, would be a very niche game. Play field would be the earth orbit and it's moon. Because for current tech Sol is to large.
Or some fictional current earth tech vessel. Maybe reach Mars in a year or so.
the game play is micro managing your vessel. But that is also fiction
with that.
If you value real lightspeed and relativity in your game you alienate yor game from a large audience. Restrict your game on many point of interrest for gamers. Unless your part of that niche market and want to develop a simulation game for your audience. Go for it.
I am more of those, influence with populair scifi and thus IP like.
Startrek starwars stargate farscape firefly andromeda Battlestar galactica etc.
With fiction you reach a bigger choice of gameplay style wich some of them more chance to reach a larger audience. and keep online play and realtime and coöp open for use. And a lot of people are used to such IP's So a fictional universe established like those with FTL solutions. Most people exept easy.
I realy do like Realisme over the top. But lightspeed is so extreem to handle and to merge in a game. And distances are even more extreem then lighspeed is fast. I take realism so far as fun gameplay can handle it. And reaching a large audience with it. Lightspeed relativity theory I would axe. To much problems
And by the manny IP's I do like to explore the universe.
So interstellar travel with FTL is a must for reaching a large audience who want to explore the stars.
So keeping to Sol is like avoiding FTL fiction to keep real sience high. At what cost, you limit your game to sol. While in reallife there is some sientific focus on exoplanets. And most what interrest people to scifi IP are the aliens. Where firefly is a exeption IP. But I don't expect space faring aliens in nearby stars within 50 Lightyears or so. Unless Life must be very common in the universe.
Or your game is focused on kolonisation of nearby starsystems. Where traveling years is speed up by a ingame time jump to a game event like reaching a star.
looking at most space games. So far i know they are scifi oriented even often not using newton combat physics. Some wich are very scientific aimd suffer from boring gamers with long travel time.
I am for a while focused on the space exloring genre. Taking current IP and games as inspiration. I sertenly would avoid real speed of light physics. And solve that with FTL fiction.
Movie TV IP I take would be
Stargate and firefly and BSG and space above and beyond startrek
Games. A merge or mix of
Mass effect Universal combat X3 TC freelancer startrek fleet commander and bridge commander. homeworld
Most people are not into science theory or simulation. But lots of them like scifi. And play games. But no simulations.
That my opinion.
Author
I personally just want to avoid overused clichés for interstellar travel whether or not the alternative is realistic. Some might appreciate familiar concepts, but I for one do not.
Quote:Original post by rozz666Quote:Original post by PKLoki
If we're talking about applying special relativity to a game, you also need to consider the breaking of conventional simultaneity. Specifically, two observers in different inertial frames of reference have their own timeline in which they will disagree about the timing - and even the *order* - of spacetime events. Imagine how hard it would be to maintain an authoritative server in a multiplayer game in which events can occur out of order for players depending on their relative locations and speeds.
Incidentally, for the curious, the equations for relativistic speed and time dilation are based on Lorentz transformations. Suggest Google.
You mean General Relativity? Special Relativity is only for constant velocities and one direction.
Technically, SR is good for all flat spacetime. If it were not able to handle acceleration (change of speed or direction), then the Standard Model would not exist. GR is only needed on large scales where the curvature of spacetime due to gravitational time dilation cannot be ignored (ex: locally flat SR, globally curved GR).
No use debateing. If you want to know the real science of what is possible in space. Then read up on the wealth of information presented here:
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/index.html
Heck that site should be listed as a resource for anyone remotely interested in developing a realistic space game. Although its aimed more at Science Fiction writers, there is still tons of useful information.
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/index.html
Heck that site should be listed as a resource for anyone remotely interested in developing a realistic space game. Although its aimed more at Science Fiction writers, there is still tons of useful information.
I think Time Dilations and near light speeds could make for an interesting mechanic in a mission based game. The short time you spend on a missions resulting in decades or even centuries passing on earth.
There are plenty of more unconventional ideas that could be used for fast travel.
- Folding space so to eliminate the intervening space between your current position and your destination.
- Black Holes – Maybe ships can generate and collapse micro black holes which they use to sling shot themselves to distant locations.
There are plenty of more unconventional ideas that could be used for fast travel.
- Folding space so to eliminate the intervening space between your current position and your destination.
- Black Holes – Maybe ships can generate and collapse micro black holes which they use to sling shot themselves to distant locations.
Relativity is a pretty well established theory now, and although it cannot account for the whole truth, it does seem able to account for a large chunk of it.
So, currently, the Speed of Light cannot be surpassed by material objects. And objects whose sizes are on par with spaceships, capable of carrying Human explorers, just ain't gonna get anywhere near it.
However, when it comes to spacetime itself, things could change. If a highly advanced civilization could manipulate the fabric of spacetime, i.e. by punching stable wormholes through it, by riding on a spacetime "warp-wave" (aka Star-Trek style!) or by collapsing spacetime in front while expanding it in behind etc, then maybe interstellar travel (and indeed intergalactic travel) is feasible.
And in any case, we're still working out the finer points of exactly what IS spacetime and just how many spacetime dimensions does our Universe inhabit. So perhaps sub-space, if indeed such a thing exists, may have a role to play.
I kinda like John Carmack's comment (source - Tricks of the 3D Game Programming Gurus) that says:
"Maybe the Speed of Light is like the Universal Governor. If a suitable evolved civilization figures how to get around it, then hopefully they are evolved enough not to ruin the rest of the Galaxy"
So, currently, the Speed of Light cannot be surpassed by material objects. And objects whose sizes are on par with spaceships, capable of carrying Human explorers, just ain't gonna get anywhere near it.
However, when it comes to spacetime itself, things could change. If a highly advanced civilization could manipulate the fabric of spacetime, i.e. by punching stable wormholes through it, by riding on a spacetime "warp-wave" (aka Star-Trek style!) or by collapsing spacetime in front while expanding it in behind etc, then maybe interstellar travel (and indeed intergalactic travel) is feasible.
And in any case, we're still working out the finer points of exactly what IS spacetime and just how many spacetime dimensions does our Universe inhabit. So perhaps sub-space, if indeed such a thing exists, may have a role to play.
I kinda like John Carmack's comment (source - Tricks of the 3D Game Programming Gurus) that says:
"Maybe the Speed of Light is like the Universal Governor. If a suitable evolved civilization figures how to get around it, then hopefully they are evolved enough not to ruin the rest of the Galaxy"
I think that because there is so much we don't know, you can basically do anything you want and throw some obscure scientific rule at anyone who disagrees with you. Such is the wonder with not having to deal with reality!
There's interesting concepts in Babylon 5 series where you can open a gate to hyperspace. The deeper you venture into hyperspace, the lower distance you have to fly from point A to point B. It is described here: http://b5tech.com/misctech/engines/hyperdrive/hyperdrive.html . It is quite a non-scientific explanation, but I believe you could find a more scientifical informations.
Hope that helps a bit.
Hope that helps a bit.
This topic is closed to new replies.
Advertisement
Popular Topics
Advertisement
