How many people have bailed on Gamedev.net?

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92 comments, last by Gorbstein 13 years ago

[size="4"]Not trying to flame here, just offer an objective opinion on the current state of the site.



I also feel like I've lost touch with the community; like a lot of folks who were very active during 2000-2007 have moved on.
Yep. No one here is posting about anything interesting anymore. This isn't really much of a game programming community. All those guys have moved on to the Unity, Unreal, XNA, and similar places.

The average poster on GDNet in 2011:
-Is an anti-social nerd with an overall bad attitude
-Argues just to argue, muddying the waters when good programming advice is posted
-Has no creativity or drive to produce anything interesting
-Gives horrible art advice
-thinks a geocities page with a drawing of an elf and no further knowledge or skill is a viable game project

All the articles are product placement by Intel, or worthless puff pieces by an Autodesk employee. Fine. You have to pay the bills. But where are the actual usefull articles?

There are journals, but their RSS feeds look like I tried to open an .exe in Notepad. Thry are kind of buried in the background and too easy to miss and forget about.

The Image Of The Day gallery is filled with fugly screenshots of blank windows that say 'LUA', or horrible programmer art. The good images are few and far between.

'For Beginners' is linked to all the time. But it's blank. And before it was blank it was ten years out of date. Why is there no article that points people to UDK, Unity, XNA Creator's Club, Realm Crafter, Panda3D, and other RELEVANT in 2011 resources?

What actually happens in these forums?

We have a high ranking moderator giving advice to everyone when they haven't even been able to get through a 'hello world' tutorial in 12 years. But they keep restarting their beastility sim / mmo every 3 weeks. Another one just spams links to their FAQ in every thread. We have a billion page thread about Steve Urkel throwing his broom at a rodent because he's more afraid of it than it is afraid of him. Anything else is basically a bunch of shut-ins talking about how anything normal people do or like sucks.

Not much game programming or creativity here.

What happens when a beginner asks for advice? They get the worst possible advice from losers with a can't do attitude who don't have a clue of what the current scene is like. They get mocked and chased away, or horribly outdated advice and language / api wars.

When someone has an interest in ORPGs they get raked over the coals instead of pointed to MUD sources, MMO maker programs, and MMO toolkits for popular engines. The advice here is equivalent to telling someone they shouldn't bother trying to make a movie with their friends for fun with a cheap video camera because they don't have the resources and budget to recreate a big budget hollywood movie.

People ask about XNA and they get a ton of BS about how you can't get your game up in the shop, and how 'M takes all the profits.

You don't need C++ or years of programming experience to make a good looking game anymore. All kinds of creative people are using products like Unity, UDK and other products, learning to script as they go along, and pumping out polished games. I've watched people on other forums go from complete noobs to published app store game authors in roughly a year. You don't need C++. You need CONTENT and DRIVE.

On GDNet, everything is impossible, and you're an idiot for even wanting to try. On the Unity forums, people who knew nothing 2 weeks ago are posting working prototypes right in their message board threads.

Other communities (Unity, UDK, polycount, GameArtisans, etc...) are full of creative, driven, people who are highly supportive of each other. They are working on good looking, interesting projects. They share code, assests, and techniques. All the best tutorials are on other websites, wikis and forums.

At least now the bad posts can be marked down.

Game programming has never been easier or more accessable, especially at the indie and hobbiest level. But this place has devolved into the game programming ghetto. A site lacking any modern or relevant content, and a forum where all the people who can't produce anything come to split hairs eternally.

I still come here mostly out of habbit, and to read the insightful posts from the dozen good/knowledgeable posters we have left, like Hogdman, Antheus, Apoch, etc.., and because I like to answer beginner questions sometimes.
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I really don't get this whole eye strain thing.. do you guys not use google? or digg/reddit? or pretty much any other site that uses white as a background? amazon.com, paypal, any travel site, ebay, microsoft.com - take a top 500 list of the web and find the ones using dark backgrounds.

It's hard to find sites that have any amount of traffic using black backgrounds anymore.

Sure I use a lot of those sites. Reddit and digg have horrible site designs, IMO though, and Amazon, Paypal, etc. aren't based around their users scrolling through a lot of text. I can see why a lot of people might be fine with the standard theme for GameDev.net. When my wife saw the redesign she said 'Ooh, that looks nice'. I come to GameDev.net for the community - reading the journals and perusing the forums. I just want something that is nice an easy on the eyes when I'm reading/scrolling through all that text. I've been a paid subscriber to the site for a couple of years now. Is a darker/cooler toned theme all that much to ask for?

Daark, while I haven't nearly as strong of an opinion as you on such matters, I can certainly understand why you feel the way you do. Community/resource building activities such as more development contests, article contests, etc. would be more preferred by me than new 'features' for the site.
laziness is the foundation of efficiency | www.AdrianWalker.info | Adventures in Game Production | @zer0wolf - Twitter
Just a small issue. Is there a way to limit the number of nested quotes? or when you reply limit it to just include the directly replied quote?

I've found a couple times I've posted in reply to someone I've carried almost a whole page of a thread into my post and it's annoying editing them out and reading the result.

I really don't get this whole eye strain thing.. do you guys not use google? or digg/reddit? or pretty much any other site that uses white as a background? amazon.com, paypal, any travel site, ebay, microsoft.com - take a top 500 list of the web and find the ones using dark backgrounds.

It's hard to find sites that have any amount of traffic using black backgrounds anymore.



The problem here is that when the new theme was unveiled, it was using poor color choices. The brighter blue shade was too bright and too close to the white. It made it seem like the white was blooming or bleeding over. It gets interpreted as extreme brightness. Same with the sig color and the lines that separate the post from the ID and the sig. Not far enough apart on the color spectrum. This stuff is all relative and you have to control your pallet.

If you are going to have various shades between the white background and the black text, they need to be evenly spaced apart brightness wise to provide balance. The brightest blue / gray / slate color here is way too close to the white. Use a color wheel tool and not trial and error / guess work.

The brightest non white shade on google.com appears to be about 100 stops down. It's properly balanced.
Digg is using a standard color wheel configuration.
Reddit could use some improvement.



On GDNet, everything is impossible, and you're an idiot for even wanting to try. On the Unity forums, people who knew nothing 2 weeks ago are posting working prototypes right in their message board threads.

I think there's some selection bias here. Beginners are regularly told that they should try Unity, Panda, etc. When they listen those threads tend to be two or three posts long: initial post asking what to do, suggestion to use an existing engine and sometimes a post of "Thanks, I'll try that". And then the thread drops off of the active topic list because no further discussion is needed and the poster is rarely heard from again because they chose a route that allows them to get crap done rather than fighting their tool chain. Then you have the threads where the OP wants to create the next World of Warcraft killer from scratch in C++ without an existing engine. These are the threads where the OP is overly ambitious and won't stand to hear anything outside of their preconceived notions of what is possible. These threads will stay in the active topic list for a long time because the OP really does need to hear some sense. And then you hear back regularly from the OP saying that he can't figure out how to do string manipulation/use switch statements/create windows for this WoW killing game engine.
I want to know how much you guys paid for this abortion of a site reroll. 5k? 7k? More? Less? I must admit that I love the way it looks but for all the wrong reasons. You guys should have hired one of the MMOrons you make fun of all the time; they could have done a better job for free! The current front page, with the subwindows overlapping the image of Cats like a 12 year old's geocities site, says it better than I ever could. All your base!
"It's like naming him Asskicker Monstertrucktits O'Ninja" -Khaiy


I want to know how much you guys paid for this abortion of a site reroll. 5k? 7k? More? Less? I must admit that I love the way it looks but for all the wrong reasons. You guys should have hired one of the MMOrons you make fun of all the time; they could have done a better job for free! The current front page, with the subwindows overlapping the image of Cats like a 12 year old's geocities site, says it better than I ever could. All your base!


They probably paid quite less. I don't think any newbie would have done something remotely similar for free (or not even getting paid) and I don't see anything in the front page resembling a 12 years old geocities site. Do you honestly think all this you are saying?
[size="2"]I like the Walrus best.

I want to know how much you guys paid for this abortion of a site reroll. 5k? 7k? More? Less? I must admit that I love the way it looks but for all the wrong reasons. You guys should have hired one of the MMOrons you make fun of all the time; they could have done a better job for free! The current front page, with the subwindows overlapping the image of Cats like a 12 year old's geocities site, says it better than I ever could. All your base!

Note: I don't speak for GDNet, I'm just responding as another user (albeit one with a little more inside information thanks to my moderator position).


Personally, I agree that the front page is probably too cluttered at the moment -- and the staff have agreed as well, and are working on trying to fix it up -- I just don't see that the featured articles box you've drawn attention to is that big of a design problem though. That sort of navigation element and layout is pretty common and accepted, and does a pretty good job of it's intended task. You could make the argument that you'd prefer the box be removed or reduced in size, but personally it doesn't scream "terrible design" just to look at that widget.

I also think you're underestimating the new site's capabilities if you think a couple of kids could have created the same thing for free. Yes, there certainly are problems with it (again those have been acknowledged by the staff, and reasons given why the change was made) but as a whole the new software certainly is functional, and provides a good platform for adding additional features, whilst freeing up the GDNet staff from having to maintain basic functionality, which will now be provided by Invision (whose next update will bring us a greatly improved text-editor amongst plenty of other improvements).


The site has plenty of issues, and I hope they do get addressed -- and that the smaller issues still get dealt with along with the addition of major features -- but do you really think the front page looks as bad as "a 12 year old's geocities site"? If you do, have you perhaps got some suggestions for how the staff could improve it?

- Jason Astle-Adams

[color=#555555][font=arial, sans-serif][size=2]http://tinyurl.com/3ek2uuv[/font]
[font="arial, sans-serif"][size="6"][color="#555555"][size=2]
[/font]
[font="arial, sans-serif"][size="6"][color="#555555"][size=2]And don't say I never did anything for you.[/font]
"It's like naming him Asskicker Monstertrucktits O'Ninja" -Khaiy


[color="#555555"][font="arial, sans-serif"]http://tinyurl.com/3ek2uuv[/font]
[font="arial, sans-serif"][size="6"][color="#555555"] [/font]
[font="arial, sans-serif"][size="6"][color="#555555"]And don't say I never did anything for you.[/font]


You never did anything for me.

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