[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1307412578' post='4820342']

Christians are the biggest supporters of the death penalty,

not even close.
[/quote]

Source?
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http://www.religioustolerance.org/execut7.htm

Though I appreciate you asking for my source rather than the source of the original claim lest we risk being impartial.

The reason many polls consider christians to be more supportive of the death penalty is because they consider anything that is not completely abolitionist to be supportive. The largest denomination of christians in the US supports the death penalty in the extreme situation where a violent criminal represents a continued and severe risk to others if he be allowed to survive even with non-lethal precautions being taken, but under no other circumstances. That's not really pro-death penalty. A good example is californians overwhelmingly support the death penalty (around 70% in 2010), but in the case of first degree murder only 40% of californians support the death penalty.

This is putting aside the fact that there are other faiths that practice the death penalty today as a punishment for non violent crimes.

Do you actually have an argument there or should we just take you at your word? If you're going to refute something you need to provide some evidence (or at the very least some solid reasoning) for your position.

To be fair, brain in a vat didn't provide any evidence either, but most people would accept that there is a certain demographic within America that supports both the war and the death penalty and that that demographic is largely christian. They would also accept that the most vocal proponents of that stance (i.e. Fox News et al) are also vocal proponents of christianity. If you have evidence or reasoning to the contrary, I'd like to hear it.

The first argument is just showing ignorance of the history of wars in the last century. The Korean and Vietnamese wars were not extraordinarily supported by christians, and the gulf war was supported just as much by Jewish and Islamic people as by christians as many of them had a much larger stake than any christian. I don't think christians supported the war in bosnia any more than anyone else, and I don't think anyone would argue that christians supported either of the world wars more or less than anyone else. Then there are plenty of wars that many christians probably don't even know about.

It's especially surprising coming from someone that seems to have been led away from faith by logic and rationality and is calling out hypocrisy.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_1945%E2%80%931989
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_1990%E2%80%932002
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_2003%E2%80%932010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_2011-present

The second was covered in my previous post.

If you only look at the US, christians will probably be a larger demographic of any supportive group of anything because they are the largest religious demographic. You need to remember that christianity is not an american faith.

http://www.religious...org/execut7.htm

Though I appreciate you asking for my source rather than the source of the original claim lest we risk being impartial.

The reason many polls consider christians to be more supportive of the death penalty is because they consider anything that is not completely abolitionist to be supportive. The largest denomination of christians in the US supports the death penalty in the extreme situation where a violent criminal represents a continued and severe risk to others if he be allowed to survive even with non-lethal precautions being taken, but under no other circumstances. That's not really pro-death penalty. A good example is californians overwhelmingly support the death penalty (around 70% in 2010), but in the case of first degree murder only 40% of californians support the death penalty.

This is putting aside the fact that there are other faiths that practice the death penalty today as a punishment for non violent crimes.

What do you suppose Jesus would say about that situation? Gee, maybe he'd say "Well, this guy is really bad. Yeah, everyone else is deserving of the mercy and forgiveness which I've commanded my human underlings to give everyone, except for this guy!"

What does it really mean to say someone is a severe risk to others if he be allowed to survive even with non-lethal precautions being taken? Someone locked up in solitary for the rest of his life is a severe risk to others? To whom? The pope is more of a severe risk to others, if only because there's a small risk that he might run someone over on his pope-mobile.

So, you guys want evidence that Christians support more the death penalty more than others. Here:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/gallup-poll-who-supports-death-penalty Please look up "Religious Preference"

Unfortunately this poll does not ask people whether they are atheists, which I guarantee you would yield a number far smaller than those seen there.

I will admit that people who actually go to Church are less in favor than those who call themselves Christians but rarely or never go to church. That said, it is painfully clear to anyone who's even looked at a Bible from across the room that no person who believes in the divinity of Jesus or the Bible should support murder of any sort. It's hypocrisy, plain as day, and if your God exists he's really pissed off about it.

Now, war? Is Jesus in favor of war? Any sane Christian would say "No, of course not." But just look at these poll numbers:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/7888/support-war-modestly-higher-among-more-religious-americans.aspx

I'm calling on all you Christians to be good Christians. Start by being honest and admitting that there's a sick death-hunger among your ranks. Then be courageous and stand up to your fellow Christians, and tell them that they are being extremely shitty Christians by supporting these things. Only then you can stand up with your head held high and say "I am not a hypocrite."

What do you suppose Jesus would say about that situation? Gee, maybe he'd say "Well, this guy is really bad. Yeah, everyone else is deserving of the mercy and forgiveness which I've commanded my human underlings to give everyone, except for this guy!"

I'm not sure what Jesus would say, but it is not a matter of forgiveness or penalty it is a matter of protection.

What does it really mean to say someone is a severe risk to others if he be allowed to survive even with non-lethal precautions being taken? Someone locked up in solitary for the rest of his life is a severe risk to others? To whom? The pope is more of a severe risk to others, if only because there's a small risk that he might run someone over on his pope-mobile.
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That's why the Church ONLY condones it when there are not non-lethal ways to ensure the safety of everyone else. Why would you give an example the church would not agree with the death penalty in as evidence for something that the church would approve the death penalty in?

The church is also for abortions when the mother's life is in danger, but would you argue that the church is pro-abortion? I sincerely hope not.

[quote name='A Brain in a Vat' timestamp='1307460145' post='4820547']
What do you suppose Jesus would say about that situation? Gee, maybe he'd say "Well, this guy is really bad. Yeah, everyone else is deserving of the mercy and forgiveness which I've commanded my human underlings to give everyone, except for this guy!"

I'm not sure what Jesus would say, but it is not a matter of forgiveness or penalty it is a matter of protection.

What does it really mean to say someone is a severe risk to others if he be allowed to survive even with non-lethal precautions being taken? Someone locked up in solitary for the rest of his life is a severe risk to others? To whom? The pope is more of a severe risk to others, if only because there's a small risk that he might run someone over on his pope-mobile.
[/quote]
That's why the Church ONLY condones it when there are not non-lethal ways to ensure the safety of everyone else. Why would you give an example the church would not agree with the death penalty in as evidence for something that the church would approve the death penalty in?

The church is also for abortions when the mother's life is in danger, but would you argue that the church is pro-abortion? I sincerely hope not.
[/quote]

What is "the Church"? Are you talking about the Catholic Church? I'm talking about Christians in general, and I'm talking about Jesus as the authority, not "the Church". Christians in general tend to condone the death penalty. The death penalty is never necessary for public safety, because there is always the alternative of life in prison. And yet Christians condone the death penalty. Why do you skirt the issues which you don't like to talk about? Most Christians support the death penalty. Will you join me in proclaiming that most Christians are hypocrites? If not, then you are a hypocrite yourself.

What is "the Church"? Are you talking about the Catholic Church? I'm talking about Christians in general, and I'm talking about Jesus as the authority, not "the Church". Christians in general tend to condone the death penalty. The death penalty is never necessary for public safety, because there is always the alternative of life in prison. And yet Christians condone the death penalty. Why do you skirt the issues which you don't like to talk about? Most Christians support the death penalty. Will you join me in proclaiming that most Christians are hypocrites? If not, then you are a hypocrite yourself.

I'm confused on whether or not you read the post 2 previous to this one past the first sentence. There is NOT always the alternative of life in prison; there is almost always the alternative.

Anyway I'm done with you as by your last sentence you have made clear you do not want to actually discuss anything, but rather talk down to anybody that disagrees with you.